Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

[road2ruin]

You've moved the goalposts. You were supporting those writing about how they are considering now going against the guidance they have been keeping to, because , in so many words,they are coming to the end of their tether at not being able to meet other than their household socially.

Once the vaccinations are done that is it, you say. OF course, that is the whole purpose of the vaccinations. When they are done , for the aged and vulnerable, we will start to get back to normal, and rightly.
But you weren't talking about that scenario earlier

I’m sorry but where I have said that I want to get people round now? In my posts I have explained the frustrations I have and how my present situation is however that I also understand we are not suddenly going to be allowed people round in the near future.

Broadly speaking I have followed all the guidelines since this whole thing kicked off and I will continue to do so. My point was that once the vaccinations are completed for those that the government have deemed most vulnerable I would expect suitable relaxations. IF at that point they aren’t what I would consider enough then yes, that is the point at which I would probably start doing my own thing. Again, I’m being realistic as I don’t expect bars, pubs etc to be open so I’m mainly talking about meeting others.

 

[Ethan]

I disagree a little with this, when I went to the pub for some food felt a lot safer then when I was in a supermarket. Supermarket very little social distancing still at ones I've been too.
Pub set up in defined areas. Table services, one use menus etc

That was part of the problem. Feeling safe was not necessarily being safe. You are more static in a restaurant for longer than in a supermarket and in the latter people may come closer, but it is usually brief. EOTHO also had an effect that further tightening of restrictions as schools were going back became more politically difficult, so the can was kicked down the line at large human cost.

 

[Ethan]

Maybe just take a step back and understand that there are millions in the UK who will catch Covid and be fine , just like many other viruses , at some stage in the future we have to move on , we can’t be locked away for ever - life needs to return for many people who are suffering right now from being locked away - there are millions making the sacrifice but at some stage that will stop and people will mix , the virus will be around for years just like the flu but it will be managed.

Do you stop seeing people when people die from the flu or indeed any other illnesses?

If you take a further step back, you will see that it is something of a lottery to know if you will be fine or not. Plenty of long Covid and measurable organ damage in young survivors, and few time bombs planted for the future. It is far too early to say that the vast majority came to no harm.

Covid is not like many of the viruses we have seen, and a comparison with the flu in 2021 is not a reasonable one, most of us have built a cumulative immunity to it over years of exposure and immune system training, and now it doesn't really affect the younger people with strong immune systems. Covid does, and can turn that strong immune system against you. Comparion to the flu in 1919 is the relevant comparison. It is very easy to say glibly that we need to get back to normal and will have to live with it. If we don't deal with it effectively, we won't get back to normal. People who are fed up not going to the pub or miss going to the football need to suck it up, contribute to the strategy to get rid of this thing rather than moan about it and undermine it.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

If you take a further step back, you will see that it is something of a lottery to know if you will be fine or not. Plenty of long Covid and measurable organ damage in young survivors, and few time bombs planted for the future. It is far too early to say that the vast majority came to no harm.

Covid is not like many of the viruses we have seen, and a comparison with the flu in 2021 is not a reasonable one, most of us have built a cumulative immunity to it over years of exposure and immune system training, and now it doesn't really affect the younger people with strong immune systems. Covid does, and can turn that strong immune system against you. Comparion to the flu in 1919 is the relevant comparison. It is very easy to say glibly that we need to get back to normal and will have to live with it. If we don't deal with it effectively, we won't get back to normal. People who are fed up not going to the pub or miss going to the football need to suck it up, contribute to the strategy to get rid of this thing rather than moan about it and undermine it.

It’s not about people who are fed up about not going to the pub or the football and I’m not sure why you went to that demographic

There are millions who aren’t seeing family even for a five second cuddle from a mother , a daughter , a grandmother - it’s having those connections with loved ones of all ages , and for a lot of people that’s what keeps them going through life.

Currently in work we have had more people gone sick from a mental aspect than from Covid - some peoples only interaction with others is in the work place and we have people struggling badly

I’m worried about what the suicide rates were last year and the increase again this year - I think it’s the biggest cause of death for men under 50 ?

No one is asking for everything to just be opened up for a big party ASAP , I don’t think anyone is excepting the pubs and clubs etc to open their doors in a couple of weeks

But for many others they will be desperate for some level of relaxation in a couple of weeks after the 15th Feb just so they can feel some part of their life is back again. There needs to be a balance -

It’s embarrassing that as a country we appear to be doing many things behind others -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55820178

I sit there and watch sport in Australia and New Zealand - full crowds , festivals happening , they beat it early by going strict and closing things down fully. What did they do that was so right and yet we appear to be so wrong ?

Was it the “Eat out to help out “ - universities just opening up en mass ?

What’s has gone so wrong in the UK that we are 12 months down the line appearing to still be at square 1

 

[fenwayrich]

I am in the group of 'clinically extremely vulnerable' due to a drug that I inject for my arthritic condition, causing my immune system to be potentially weakened. It's called Adalimumab. I am waiting for the call to be vaccinated ahead of most people my age (64).

I read yesterday that a trial is taking place to determine whether the same medicine could be an effective treatment for Covid. I've sometimes thought about stopping my injections, but I haven't had Covid, or even a cold since last March, so I'm carrying on. You never know, the drug might be more useful than the vaccine.

 

[Old Skier]

Fluvidiots

I think we need a new word of the day thread haha

Death by flu in our area has been much lower than normal in our area, hopefully people might learn from that.

 

[PJ87]

Ouch. Poor thing - hope she isn't too sore.

Thanks , she is a lot better today ... More herself, already adapting to only having the one arm to use for stuff

 

[Deleted member 25172]

If you take a further step back, you will see that it is something of a lottery to know if you will be fine or not. Plenty of long Covid and measurable organ damage in young survivors, and few time bombs planted for the future. It is far too early to say that the vast majority came to no harm.

Covid is not like many of the viruses we have seen, and a comparison with the flu in 2021 is not a reasonable one, most of us have built a cumulative immunity to it over years of exposure and immune system training, and now it doesn't really affect the younger people with strong immune systems. Covid does, and can turn that strong immune system against you. Comparion to the flu in 1919 is the relevant comparison. It is very easy to say glibly that we need to get back to normal and will have to live with it. If we don't deal with it effectively, we won't get back to normal. People who are fed up not going to the pub or miss going to the football need to suck it up, contribute to the strategy to get rid of this thing rather than moan about it and undermine it.

Both Phil and Road2Ruin have talked about that we have to get going, if not exactly as normal, at some point. If that's not debatable even when the groups who accounts for 90-95% of all deaths from this have been vaccinated, then when is it?

When 50% of the whole population has been vaccinated? 75%? 100%?

 

[Jimaroid]

What’s has gone so wrong in the UK that we are 12 months down the line appearing to still be at square 1

We're not allowed to talk about it.

 

[Jimaroid]

I hate to say it but I think looking backwards to figure out what went wrong is waste of time at this point, all it's doing is creating more noise and anger. The only thing we should concentrate on is the plan between now and normality. I think a great reset is required, to look at the current state of play and only concentrate on the end game from now on. It might mean a bit more pain in the short term but I think some clarity of a brighter future would help rebuild us all.

I also think there is a tidalwave of mental health issues building, I get some pretty awful insights into that through my wife's role in the NHS.

 

[Ethan]

I am in the group of 'clinically extremely vulnerable' due to a drug that I inject for my arthritic condition, causing my immune system to be potentially weakened. It's called Adalimumab. I am waiting for the call to be vaccinated ahead of most people my age (64).

I read yesterday that a trial is taking place to determine whether the same medicine could be an effective treatment for Covid. I've sometimes thought about stopping my injections, but I haven't had Covid, or even a cold since last March, so I'm carrying on. You never know, the drug might be more useful than the vaccine.

Don't stop your injections unless your doctor advises you to do so.

Adalimumab is a powerful biologic medicine in a category known as anti-TNFs, used to treat a range of conditions from RA to Crohn's Disease. Short version is that it may help prevent the inflammatory storm that occurs in some people who get Covid, typically after around 7 days of illness, often when they appear to be getting better, then crash. Some other drugs, such as tocilizumab, also used for similar conditions have recently also been put into trials for the same reason.

If you are flagged for vaccination, being on your medicine creates no problem to taking it.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

It’s not about people who are fed up about not going to the pub or the football and I’m not sure why you went to that demographic


1

That statement is wrong. See posts 15183, 15215, which started this off.
Those posts and the ones which supported the thoughts expressed were what started this off.
And it is exactly this want of meeting people face to face in indoor situations which is driving this virus. It's the aerosol effect that is spreading it.
You came in inferring that millions will get the virus and have no ill effects, a statement that has an element of truth( ignoring long Covid) , but like all such bald statements there is a valid truth not being acknowledged.
Millions with Covid will pass it to other millions who would not have had it, of whom some would die or be affected for life.
But that's OK, because you want families to cuddle etc.
In the war, children were sent to safety from the blitz, parents didn't know to where for a long time. No phone communication, only , eventually, letters.

Families should be able to be together, yes, and this is what it is about- creating conditions for that to happen safely, as soon as the virus and the control of it will let us safely do that.
Sure, mistakes have been made but the authorities are trying their best.
None of the harsh measures brought in is what is wanted, it is what is necessary.
Demanding personal wants is not helping.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Both Phil and Road2Ruin have talked about that we have to get going, if not exactly as normal, at some point. If that's not debatable even when the groups who accounts for 90-95% of all deaths from this have been vaccinated, then when is it?

When 50% of the whole population has been vaccinated? 75%? 100%?

We all agree "on some point." Course we do. But this started because some wanted this point to be imminent, almost now. They supported that imminent timepoint.
It certainly isn't within a month. But not too far off. Just a bit more patience.

 

[SaintHacker]

Daughter in law, who has been sheilding pretty much from the start due to a compromised immune system, has just found out she won't be vaccinated due to her immune system problems. Unhappy is a massive understatement

 

[road2ruin]

Millions with Covid will pass it to other millions who would not have had it, of whom some would die or be affected for life.
But that's OK, because you want families to cuddle etc.

Demanding personal wants is not helping.

You seem to be paraphrasing and taking comments out of their context to suit your own personal point of view.

The point that is being made is that the lockdown is to protect the vulnerable and the NHS. That point is (hopefully) being rapidly reached with the vaccine and according to the Governments schedule that will be completed in mid-February. We know we cannot just open up at that point because the vaccine doesn't make you instantaneously immune so we probably have to add 4 weeks or so on top of that to ensure that it's been given the chance to do it's job. Once that point has passed I see no reason for the lockdown to continue and whilst we aren't going back to the old normal you also cannot keep those who aren't at the highest risk kept inside etc. I have also not read anywhere that either myself or similarly opinioned posters have said that we want everything opened now which you seem to be implying.

As I mentioned earlier, I am going to be towards the back of the queue for the vaccine so I guess I will become more 'at risk' but then that will be down to my own personal risk levels however I am not going to spend the next 9 months not seeing friends indoors just in case I happen to catch the virus. If I did get it and was to get serious ill or even die (speaking as someone who is relatively fit with no known underlying health conditions) then that would be unfortunate but then it would have likely got me at some point anyway and I am prepared to take my chances.

 

[Ethan]

At the very start of this pandemic, when we were watching the disaster unfolding in Italy, in particular, prominent public health voices and international organisations such as WHO stated very clearly that we needed to decisively deal with this or it would run and run. We didn't and it has.

It is a disgrace that a year later we have 100k+ plus dead and multiples of that number with complications and chronic disease. The economy is a basket case and I think it is finally dawning on the powers that be that the health vs economy tension is a false one. The two things go hand and hand. They were told this multiple times.

At the start, it was perfectly possible for the UK to do what it is now contemplating, to essentially close the country. Had they done so, and then only slowly released restrictions, we would have had far fewer cases, and then the task of controlling those cases in the country would be much easier, the pressures on the NHS would be much less and the economy would be in a better state to recover.

The big question now is whether closing the door after the horse has bolted, done a few laps of the field, had a rest, started up again and taken a large dump in the garden, can possibly work. Is there any point in trying to keep it out when it is already running riot inside? We don't know, except that it will be a lot less effective now.

On mental health, there is a distinction between people being pissed off and grumpy, we all are, and actually proper psychopathology. My wife is a Consultant Psychiatrist and as I write, is interviewing a patient on Zoom in another room of the house. There is a large body of work which says, in short, that during tough times, war, famine, that sort of thing, mental health issues are less because people are focussed on getting through and a lot of the first world problem stuff gets put into context. The upticks in these issues occurs after the external problems settle. Whether that is because they were welded up and then released, or really only generated afterward is unknown.

At the start of the pandemic, my wife noted that a lot of her personality disordered patients, typically very hard to treat and the cause of many problems for the mental health teams, were rather quiet. These people tend to wax and wane with rises and dips in the pandemic. In terms of what she would call hard pathology, there is still a bunch of people with schizophrenia and other mental health disorders who need treated and managed, but no signs that these numbers are increasing. There have been reports of increased numbers of suicides at points during the pandemic, although the interpretation of that is disputed, but there does not appear to be any evidence of widespread mental health problems (of the sort that need medical intervention) in the wider community. There are loads of people on social media complaining about there mental health, but that sometimes seems to be a sort of ennui or unsettledness, and in my opinion is likely not a lasting mental health issue.

 

[Deleted member 25172]

We all agree "on some point." Course we do. But this started because some wanted this point to be imminent, almost now. They supported that imminent timepoint.
It certainly isn't within a month. But not too far off. Just a bit more patience.

No, you've read his post like the devil reads the bible.

I’m not disagreeing with you and also not suggesting it should happen in the coming days or even weeks. My hope is that mid February the vaccine timetable will have been stuck to them add a 3 or so weeks until the vaccine protection has kicked in. During this time infection rates will have dropped and hopefully hospital admissions with it. So basically my hope is towards the end of March.

I’m not suggesting or expecting normality however I am expecting relaxations to be made and for it not to be done at a snails pace because SAGE demand it. If the 14m or so most vulnerable have been vaccinated and the NHS are not in danger of being overwhelmed then there are no excuses. As I said though, I am also not suggesting that over night we are suddenly unleashed.

 

[Ethan]

Both Phil and Road2Ruin have talked about that we have to get going, if not exactly as normal, at some point. If that's not debatable even when the groups who accounts for 90-95% of all deaths from this have been vaccinated, then when is it?

When 50% of the whole population has been vaccinated? 75%? 100%?

Depends what you mean by 'get going'. And for the umpteenth, but probably not last, time, IT. ISN'T. ONLY. ABOUT. DEATHS.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

No, you've read his post like the devil reads the bible.

No , you've read my post wrongly. In the bit of mine you've quoted, you should have noted that I said some.
And I have numbered the post that started this aspect of the debate. RtR supported that post and talked in his about "a month"
As the posts went on he talks more in general terms describing a time in the future , further forward, more akin to what I support. Of course, restrictions should be lifted as vaccinations take effect and numbers fall greatly. That will happen, but not in a month .

 

[SocketRocket]

Arbitrary dates like the middle of February or when over 70s have been vaccinated for people to start socialising again is not sensible. The time for this to happen is when infections and deaths fall to acceptable levels.

It is true that many people are suffering mental health issues and there will be associated suisides but that can't be a reason to ease up on Covid. Most of us are missing contact with friends and family but realise it's something we just have to accept and put up with however difficult untill the time is right.