Foxholer
Blackballed
I can assure you, my attitude would have been the same!
Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?
- Thread starter drdel
- Start date
Swinglowandslow
Well-known member
Hmm, so because flu vaccine has been about for X number of years, it is ok.
But the Covid one isn't.?
"We know a lot about them "
Do we, or do 'they'?
It seems time is your only yardstick.
That being the case, at what point ( how many years) before it will be OK
for Covid vaccine?
Which supposes that if you and your child had been a couple of years away from the introduction of the flu vaccine, you wouldn't have permitted that either.?
And, why should we not believe that you consider everyone who is refusing the vaccine is being wise?
Ethan
Money List Winner
Let me explain why, in my opinion, flu is different.
Firstly, we are in a very different place with the evolution of immunity to flu. Over the century since Spanish flu, the population that haven't died from it slowly built up a multi-layered and flexible immunity to flu. That was a mixture of vaccination and exposure. That means that flu weeded out the weaker, and the rest developed immunity that could adapt to each year's new version. The elderly are less able to maintain that, and are more vulnerable to being tipped over into serious illness by the flu. Now and again a bad version come around and tests the quality of that population immunity. Flu also has, arguably, a more limited range of variants, tending to cycle between several specific combinations of surface antigens (usually described as HxNy). Covid appears to have a much larger range of variability.
Even so, with time, the same situation may develop with Covid, and maybe in a generation, people don't even think of Covid unless granny gets ill.
But we are not even close to being there yet.
Secondly, Covid is a nastier disease than influenza. The respiratory bit may be roughly similar, although despite attempts by some to characterise it as a disease of very old people, it affects younger people too.
But Covid has a sting in the tail, and that is systemic (whole body) inflammatory effects. Those include the cytokine storm that can kick in after a week or so, but also can cause longer term damage, including asymptomatic effects in people some of whom do not even know they were infected. There is a potential time-bomb quiet growing.
Firstly, we are in a very different place with the evolution of immunity to flu. Over the century since Spanish flu, the population that haven't died from it slowly built up a multi-layered and flexible immunity to flu. That was a mixture of vaccination and exposure. That means that flu weeded out the weaker, and the rest developed immunity that could adapt to each year's new version. The elderly are less able to maintain that, and are more vulnerable to being tipped over into serious illness by the flu. Now and again a bad version come around and tests the quality of that population immunity. Flu also has, arguably, a more limited range of variants, tending to cycle between several specific combinations of surface antigens (usually described as HxNy). Covid appears to have a much larger range of variability.
Even so, with time, the same situation may develop with Covid, and maybe in a generation, people don't even think of Covid unless granny gets ill.
But we are not even close to being there yet.
Secondly, Covid is a nastier disease than influenza. The respiratory bit may be roughly similar, although despite attempts by some to characterise it as a disease of very old people, it affects younger people too.
But Covid has a sting in the tail, and that is systemic (whole body) inflammatory effects. Those include the cytokine storm that can kick in after a week or so, but also can cause longer term damage, including asymptomatic effects in people some of whom do not even know they were infected. There is a potential time-bomb quiet growing.
Ethan
Money List Winner
I think that is a rather narrow perspective. Do you ignore your doctor if they don't have kids of your kids' age?
I have a 12 and 14 year old, both boys, so they have a higher risk of myocarditis as an adverse event with mRNA vaccines than younger kids or girls of the same age, and both have been vaxxed.
hovis
Tour Winner
But of a silly comparison really. Those things you mention had serious consequences if not vacinated against. Covid is nothing to the overwhelming majority of children
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
'Loaded'! Explain what was loaded about suggesting parents weigh up the risks and benefits ?
hovis
Tour Winner
Erm, yeh!!!!
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Nothing! Really.
hovis
Tour Winner
Doing a quick Google search I see that 3 children my daughters age range have died of covid this year. Yeh I'd say that's nothing
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Share their unsubstantiated opinions that are void of facts more like.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Read Ethan's posts that explain the real potential for serious health issues long term. I don't call that 'Nothing' and I'd take his views over yours anyday.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Like Groundhog Day
Maybe it’s time to move on now and to potentially close the thread to allow that process to happen
Maybe it’s time to move on now and to potentially close the thread to allow that process to happen
Leftitshort
Well-known member
Same boat. That was my issue. From what I could see the risks outweighed any benefits. The info i read when it was first suggested, indicated there was an increased risk in teenage boys. It was their choice however and most of their peers have been jabbed.
I’d clearly take on a drs opinion, and respect yours, but I don’t believe the other fellas are suitably qualified. Maybe we should break it too them?
I do slightly resent being told to vaccinate my kids against a disease they’ve both had, with hardly any symptoms. Just to placate teaching unions & allow some pensioners to feel safe in tescos.
Foxholer
Blackballed
In the short term perhaps. But have you also considered the long term effects - as per Ethan's earlier post?
hovis
Tour Winner
That's fine. Crack on with what you gotta do. I've read Ethan's post and (no disrespect to eithan) it's full of "may" "maybe" "it could". There's plenty of stories out there with how adults are suffering with long term effects of covid. Hardly anything about children aged 7. The fact that the government own "specialist" said the risk rewards for the vacine get higher as the age group lowers is enough for me to pay attention and get the necessary information before I make a decision on vaccinating my daughter. that's up to me. If you want to be a sheep and do as your told (like I did with my vacine). Then that's fine too
As someone else just posted, I can help but think this is to appease teachers and unions
road2ruin
Q-School Graduate
Got nothing to do with needles.
If the science was clear then there would be a clearer mandate to vaccinate children. It’s being given as a choice so I don’t see who you are to try and guilt trip anyone into doing it.
My daughters health is more important to me than a pensioner and so my decision will be based on what I think is best for her and not the benefit it might have for anyone else especially when we have a very successful vaccine which offers these people protection.
We’ve had Covid, for my daughter it was nothing other than a 24 hour bug. The vaccine, in a fortunately very small number of cases, results in very severe adverse affects. It’s a numbers game for me, she’s had Covid, she’s healthy so why risk the vaccine when the benefits for her personally are so marginal.
Foxholer
Blackballed
Given the amount of mis-information that abounds on SM, I'm dubious about it really 'being a benefit'!
Ethan
Money List Winner
Like I said before, I respect whatever choice people make so long as they have had access to reasonably reliable information. People balance risks and benefits differently, so there is usually a valid degree of judgement and personal choice involved. If another variant comes along, that balance may change and you may choose differently.
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
Do you not believe all on here will have done that? They are not stupid and won’t need you to tell them!
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
I agree it can be like groundhog day, but then again there are a few threads that fall in that category.
For me there is still some worth while stuff coming through and would be a bit premature to close it.
