I also agree with the travel restrictions, buying time to allow scientists to work out what we are up against is important. All I meant is that whilst it might be difficult I don’t think we should worry too much about variants as there is little we can do to stop them. We just have to hope that they don’t end up being something seriously nasty. I‘m still fairly confident that with a bit of fiddling with the vaccine we should be okay against most things.
Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?
- Thread starter drdel
- Start date
I also agree with the travel restrictions, buying time to allow scientists to work out what we are up against is important. All I meant is that whilst it might be difficult I don’t think we should worry too much about variants as there is little we can do to stop them. We just have to hope that they don’t end up being something seriously nasty. I‘m still fairly confident that with a bit of fiddling with the vaccine we should be okay against most things.
Ethan
Money List Winner
We are in vaccine v1.0 right now, v1.1 is coming shortly with Pfizer and AZ Delta versions. We need v2.0, multivalent vaccines that can recognise any part of a corona so are not likely to have vaccine escape, or even v3.0, T-cell vaccines which may give a durable immunity, like this, although it has a long way to go, so the plan might be to get by on existing vaccines knowing they run out of puff until some of these next-gen vaccines come along, and then things could change significantly.
yandabrown
Newbie
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Apparently the new variant is named omicron. What happened to Epsilon etc.?
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
Chances are the new variant is here. What damage it does between now and Christmas remains to be seen but having seen two unvaccinated patients pass today and the devastation of the families, there seems one simple and logical option to all. Get jabbed and give yourself as much protection as you can
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
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I as thinking similar earlier today about the gamma variant…we seemed to jump from beta to delta…
Ethan
Money List Winner
The Economist editorial on Covid in Europe:
Over the next few years Covid-19 will probably settle down as a seasonal disease, a lethal threat to the elderly and the poor in health, but to everyone else mostly a nuisance. However, as Europe is discovering, getting there will be perilous. The European Union is recording nearly a quarter of a million cases a day, more than at any time in the pandemic. Eleven months after vaccination first got under way, intensive-care wards in some regions are almost full. The World Health Organisation warned this week that 700,000 more Europeans could die by March.
Amid growing alarm, governments are once again locking down. Austria has become the first rich country to demand that all of its citizens must be vaccinated or face a fine; Germany may follow. Demonstrators are taking to the streets to protest against new restrictions, including in the Netherlands, Belgium and Italy. As the disease spreads, confusion reigns about what measures are justified in the campaign to slow it.
Dealing with the fourth wave begins with understanding what is causing it. Covid is surging in Europe because winter weather sends people indoors, where the virus spreads easily. In the eu slightly over 60% of the population over 12 years old is fully vaccinated. That leaves roughly 150m people unprotected, unless they have already acquired immunity from having survived an infection—as many have in Britain. It is a warning to places like China with large immunologically naive populations.
At the same time, immunity starts to wane from around ten weeks after the second dose. Booster shots are vital, but the EU has been slow to administer them. In Germany infections are doubling every 12 days. One reason is that, even now, only 8% have received a third dose, compared with 23% in Britain.
As so often in the pandemic, governments have been caught out by the exponential growth in cases. Because they are acting late, they must resort to more extreme measures. Protesters say their liberties are being trampled. Many of those who reject vaccination argue that the state has no right to coerce them.
Those arguments are flawed. Two years into the pandemic, it is clear that your behaviour really is your neighbours’ business. One reason is that you are more likely to infect other people if you are unvaccinated. Even if they are protected, some of them will fall gravely ill and die—albeit a small proportion. Also, if the state does nothing, the unjabbed will swamp the health service, causing a lot of deaths, including many that have nothing to do with covid. And more than one liberty is at stake. If governments have to resort to lockdowns to slow the spread of the disease, anti-vaxxers are depriving the vaccinated of freedom.
What makes government intervention hard is not the question of principle, but the practical business of being effective and proportionate: of knowing what works at what cost and how this varies from one country to the next. The aim is not to eradicate covid—that would be impossible—but to slow its spread so that cases are manageable. Flattening the curve in this way saves lives by protecting health systems and buying time to administer vaccines and procure powerful new anti-Covid medicines, such as molnupiravir.
The easy steps are promoting handwashing and demanding mask-wearing in public indoor spaces. Both reduce the spread of disease, but neither impinges greatly on anyone’s freedom. Next comes accelerating boosters, which protect individuals and society at large by rapidly restoring the partial ability to block transmission. This should be simple, because vaccine hesitancy should not be a factor with those who have already been jabbed. Countries can also enforce existing measures, such as requiring vaccination or a negative test for access to public places.
That may not be enough to contain the surge in places like Germany and Austria, where most of these measures have been in force even as the disease has spread. In principle there is nothing wrong with demanding universal vaccination. In practice, however, it has enough drawbacks to give governments pause. A two-dose course will take weeks to become fully effective, even if anti-vaxxers comply. Austria is not requiring vaccination until February, when the wave is likely to be abating. In addition, if you believe that vaccination is a conspiracy by the state, compulsion only confirms your suspicions and attracts money and people to anti-vax campaigns. The policy could undermine faith in all vaccines for years to come. When, as in some European countries, government policies have failed, the only emergency brake is the misery of more lockdowns.
Over the next few years Covid-19 will probably settle down as a seasonal disease, a lethal threat to the elderly and the poor in health, but to everyone else mostly a nuisance. However, as Europe is discovering, getting there will be perilous. The European Union is recording nearly a quarter of a million cases a day, more than at any time in the pandemic. Eleven months after vaccination first got under way, intensive-care wards in some regions are almost full. The World Health Organisation warned this week that 700,000 more Europeans could die by March.
Amid growing alarm, governments are once again locking down. Austria has become the first rich country to demand that all of its citizens must be vaccinated or face a fine; Germany may follow. Demonstrators are taking to the streets to protest against new restrictions, including in the Netherlands, Belgium and Italy. As the disease spreads, confusion reigns about what measures are justified in the campaign to slow it.
Dealing with the fourth wave begins with understanding what is causing it. Covid is surging in Europe because winter weather sends people indoors, where the virus spreads easily. In the eu slightly over 60% of the population over 12 years old is fully vaccinated. That leaves roughly 150m people unprotected, unless they have already acquired immunity from having survived an infection—as many have in Britain. It is a warning to places like China with large immunologically naive populations.
At the same time, immunity starts to wane from around ten weeks after the second dose. Booster shots are vital, but the EU has been slow to administer them. In Germany infections are doubling every 12 days. One reason is that, even now, only 8% have received a third dose, compared with 23% in Britain.
As so often in the pandemic, governments have been caught out by the exponential growth in cases. Because they are acting late, they must resort to more extreme measures. Protesters say their liberties are being trampled. Many of those who reject vaccination argue that the state has no right to coerce them.
Those arguments are flawed. Two years into the pandemic, it is clear that your behaviour really is your neighbours’ business. One reason is that you are more likely to infect other people if you are unvaccinated. Even if they are protected, some of them will fall gravely ill and die—albeit a small proportion. Also, if the state does nothing, the unjabbed will swamp the health service, causing a lot of deaths, including many that have nothing to do with covid. And more than one liberty is at stake. If governments have to resort to lockdowns to slow the spread of the disease, anti-vaxxers are depriving the vaccinated of freedom.
What makes government intervention hard is not the question of principle, but the practical business of being effective and proportionate: of knowing what works at what cost and how this varies from one country to the next. The aim is not to eradicate covid—that would be impossible—but to slow its spread so that cases are manageable. Flattening the curve in this way saves lives by protecting health systems and buying time to administer vaccines and procure powerful new anti-Covid medicines, such as molnupiravir.
The easy steps are promoting handwashing and demanding mask-wearing in public indoor spaces. Both reduce the spread of disease, but neither impinges greatly on anyone’s freedom. Next comes accelerating boosters, which protect individuals and society at large by rapidly restoring the partial ability to block transmission. This should be simple, because vaccine hesitancy should not be a factor with those who have already been jabbed. Countries can also enforce existing measures, such as requiring vaccination or a negative test for access to public places.
That may not be enough to contain the surge in places like Germany and Austria, where most of these measures have been in force even as the disease has spread. In principle there is nothing wrong with demanding universal vaccination. In practice, however, it has enough drawbacks to give governments pause. A two-dose course will take weeks to become fully effective, even if anti-vaxxers comply. Austria is not requiring vaccination until February, when the wave is likely to be abating. In addition, if you believe that vaccination is a conspiracy by the state, compulsion only confirms your suspicions and attracts money and people to anti-vax campaigns. The policy could undermine faith in all vaccines for years to come. When, as in some European countries, government policies have failed, the only emergency brake is the misery of more lockdowns.
My wife is 47, higher risk, has 3 scarring holes in her lung from a bout of cavitating pneumonia that almost killed her. Has had the vaccines but no booster yet (Few weeks). She is a school teacher in a primary school (Years 1-6) She has been teaching in Years 2 and 6 this year due to maternity leave. She is also a Key Stage 2 leader, Head of Sen (Special Educational Needs) and a School direct leader (Trains and places students to be teachers). This means she also visits other schools. We were obviously highly stressed when Covid came along. She has not managed to get Covid yet.
Currently out 11 year old son has Covid from school. He tested positive last Sunday, the other 3 of us have not caught it yet and he is asymptomatic.
We have found a middle ground of not overly worrying, still taking some precautions and being careful but not letting it take over our lives.
I can totally understand how you are feeling, we were the same and we will be glad when we get our boosters, mine is on Thursday and Sarah's the 21/12.
spongebob59
Journeyman Pro
I had my one month check up with the stoma nurse mid week. She told me my next one would be by video call as they were preparing for the possible winter crisis.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
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Masks back for shopping indoors? Well that‘s what my Mrs thinks she’s heard…and so just what I guessed. I do not watch live as I get too irritated by one of the three key individuals. Apparently Christmas is going to be better than last year…well that’s good to know but frankly a pretty useless pointer as to where we might be. But I cannot go further with my thoughts.
Ethan
Money List Winner
Would you care to expand on this evolving conspiracy theory?
Nope, just pointing out the timing is fortunate.
It also seems to have been ignored by the MSM who are intent on scaremongering that the SA health officials are saying that if anything this variant is milder than Delta.
Ethan
Money List Winner
Come on, say what you mean. You think the UK is overhyping this in order to push boosters for Christmas, right?
Your post reeks of conspiracy theorist - MSM, as if it is all one homogenous entity in cahoots with Govt; scaremongering - otherwise known as taking sensible precautions.
The SA authorities don't know enough yet to know.. Also, even if it is milder in effect, if it escapes vaccines due to the nature of the spike protein mutations, or worse still, if to is allowed to spread such that it drives further mutations which could be a lot less mild, it could still be a very big problem.
I think they will use it as an excuse yes although I don’t blame them, it’s a good opportunity.
In terms of the new variant, it was found within vaccinated people in SA so doesn’t that suggest that we’re going to continually get these mutations?
When pushed/asked a direct question he shuffled papers, muttered something inaudible and said the Health Secretary would give further details managing to avoid giving any sensible info himself.
Liverpoolphil
Grand Slam Winner
It’s not a hardship we are being asked - wear a mask in a shop and get the booster ?
If we can do that hopefully we can avoid any further lockdowns
If we can do that hopefully we can avoid any further lockdowns
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
Of course we will..continually
Doesn't mean we shouldn't take precautions until we know what we're dealing with..
What happens if we don't put the shields up and it turns to be a worse strain than all the others and rips through us all....?
Surely you don't want that....
3offTheTee
Tour Rookie
Spot on LP. We are in Spain at present, masks in shops, restaurants, bars, before seated. Walking around we wear masks most of the time. If in the breakfast room and people are not wearing masks the restaurant staff ask them why.It’s not a hardship we are being asked - wear a mask in a shop and get the booster ?
Simple really