Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

IainP

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Am finding it tricky to assess where we are & going. The weekends have historically been low number reporting times - does anyone know when UK last reported over 190 deaths for a weekend?
I know these numbers are way fewer than the really dark times, but also looking to mainland Europe it's seems fairly clear we have a much larger circulation of the virus ongoing.
I've been enjoying a few of the "freedoms" with half an eye on making the most of it before possibly hunkering back down for the dark/wet/cool months.
Finally another sad story, a lad without a father etc. Can never say for sure, but probabilities suggest it could have been avoided 🙁
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-58376709
 

D-S

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Am finding it tricky to assess where we are & going. The weekends have historically been low number reporting times - does anyone know when UK last reported over 190 deaths for a weekend?
I know these numbers are way fewer than the really dark times, but also looking to mainland Europe it's seems fairly clear we have a much larger circulation of the virus ongoing.
I've been enjoying a few of the "freedoms" with half an eye on making the most of it before possibly hunkering back down for the dark/wet/cool months.
Finally another sad story, a lad without a father etc. Can never say for sure, but probabilities suggest it could have been avoided 🙁
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-58376709
A cursory glance at the numbers shows me that France has had 169 deaths in the past two days and Spain has had 240.
 

Ethan

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You and Ethan are clearly not fully accepting the difficulties which would arise if masks were mandatory. It has been said before but doesn't seem to get through.
Mandatory masks were manageable when a number of activities were closed down. Nightclubs, theatres, football stadia etc. People going to shops. etc would not find that impractical or too irksome.
However, pressure built to open up the entertainment industry, and mask wearing wouldn't happen there.
If you think it would, you are being naive or obtuse. How are the police going to uphold the law in those places. Not possible and the Government know it.
Anybody who know how nightclubs work etc knows it.
So, opening up had to be done , thus mandatory masks had to be changed to requesting masks.
If you want no opening up of entertainment industry, say so.- just tell us whether you think they should stay closed ( when all over 18 could - IMO should- be vaxxed and you would have the non vaxxers calling the shots!)

I still wear a mask as before the change. I value their use. But I recognise the impracticable scenarios I have mentioned. You are not doing that.
And that really isn't being fair to the decision makers and the Police who would be in an impossible situation .
I do agree with Ethan that admission to these places where many people gather should be limited to the vaxxed.
Let's start recognising where the problem really lies.
I am frankly fed up of the tail wagging the dog, where the non vaxxed ( the refusers) are contributing immensely to the infection rate, where care home workers think it right to work there not vaxxed, as if all we should worry about is their rights, and not the right of those in care to live a Covid free life as far as is possible.
I didn't mention night clubs or entertainment for masks. I realise that masks are a bit of an impediment for youth trying to pull in nightclubs.
 

D-S

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Interesting, they've not published those onto worldometer.
A cursory glance confirms there are over 40 countries in Europe.
The numbers actually do come from Worldometer, I just picked similar sized countries to the UK.
As I say I just had a quick look rather than going into deaths per million etc.

here are the France numbers:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/

here are the Spanish numbers:-
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/
Scroll down to the bottom for daily numbers, as you may well know.
 

IainP

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The numbers actually do come from Worldometer, I just picked similar sized countries to the UK.
As I say I just had a quick look rather than going into deaths per million etc.

here are the France numbers:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/

here are the Spanish numbers:-
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/
Scroll down to the bottom for daily numbers, as you may well know.
France have posted Saturday (74), not Sunday yet. Spain not since Friday, would you agree?
I'd consider Germany & Italy also of similar size, although I didn't refer to size.
Incidentally my comment on Europe wasn't in reference to deaths.
 

D-S

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All I said was that I had a cursory glance at the numbers for the past two days on worldometer which showed a different story from the comments that mainland Europe might have been in a different state from the Uk. To truly compare numbers in circulation you need to look at number of tests per head of population not just positive tests, I believe we were, I am not sure now, testing far more per head than most mainland European and countries which again renders such statements moot.
 

IainP

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All I said was that I had a cursory glance at the numbers for the past two days on worldometer which showed a different story from the comments that mainland Europe might have been in a different state from the Uk. To truly compare numbers in circulation you need to look at number of tests per head of population not just positive tests, I believe we were, I am not sure now, testing far more per head than most mainland European and countries which again renders such statements moot.
I'm still not clear what point you were aiming to make in post 21,145 other than it came across as aiming to belittle me. With inaccurate facts.
So I suggest we agree to disagree.
 

D-S

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I'm still not clear what point you were aiming to make in post 21,145 other than it came across as aiming to belittle me. With inaccurate facts.
So I suggest we agree to disagree.
I had no intention of belittling anyone at all, my apologies if that was the impression. All I was seeking to point out was some context in the numbers. As you say, if we do disagree (which I am not sure we do), let’s at least agree to do that.
 

SocketRocket

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You and Ethan are clearly not fully accepting the difficulties which would arise if masks were mandatory. It has been said before but doesn't seem to get through.
Mandatory masks were manageable when a number of activities were closed down. Nightclubs, theatres, football stadia etc. People going to shops. etc would not find that impractical or too irksome.
However, pressure built to open up the entertainment industry, and mask wearing wouldn't happen there.
If you think it would, you are being naive or obtuse. How are the police going to uphold the law in those places. Not possible and the Government know it.
Anybody who know how nightclubs work etc knows it.
So, opening up had to be done , thus mandatory masks had to be changed to requesting masks.
If you want no opening up of entertainment industry, say so.- just tell us whether you think they should stay closed ( when all over 18 could - IMO should- be vaxxed and you would have the non vaxxers calling the shots!)

I still wear a mask as before the change. I value their use. But I recognise the impracticable scenarios I have mentioned. You are not doing that.
And that really isn't being fair to the decision makers and the Police who would be in an impossible situation .
I do agree with Ethan that admission to these places where many people gather should be limited to the vaxxed.
Let's start recognising where the problem really lies.
I am frankly fed up of the tail wagging the dog, where the non vaxxed ( the refusers) are contributing immensely to the infection rate, where care home workers think it right to work there not vaxxed, as if all we should worry about is their rights, and not the right of those in care to live a Covid free life as far as is possible.
I wasn't referring to to night clubs, although I think it's still not the right time to open events in closed environments. I totally agree with you Re: non Vaxers but would prefer us to be maintaining some sensible restrictions rather that what I think is happening now, a head on rush to full lockdown again come the winter.
 

road2ruin

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…..a head on rush to full lockdown again come the winter.
Do you really think there will be a full lockdown this winter? If so what was the point of the vaccinations? If there is a full lockdown this winter are we saying that it will be an annual thing then as there will always be another variant on the horizon that reacts to the vaccinations in slightly different way. Surely with the most vulnerable vaccinated and boosters for them on the way we’re now past the point of full lockdowns unless we’re saying that they’re now with us for ever more? This isn’t meant as a dig or anything, just interested in your view.
 

SocketRocket

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Do you really think there will be a full lockdown this winter? If so what was the point of the vaccinations? If there is a full lockdown this winter are we saying that it will be an annual thing then as there will always be another variant on the horizon that reacts to the vaccinations in slightly different way. Surely with the most vulnerable vaccinated and boosters for them on the way we’re now past the point of full lockdowns unless we’re saying that they’re now with us for ever more? This isn’t meant as a dig or anything, just interested in your view.
Yes, I do think there will be one. Infections are rising again along with hospitalisations and deaths, we know it will get worse in the winter and shortly when schools and Unis go back. Vaccinations do help to reduce serious illness but it's proportional, they don't stop people getting infected and many becoming very ill along with associated hospitalisations and deaths. If infections fall along with the associated health problems then I will hold up my hands and say I was wrong. Time will tell but I would be much happier with mandatory mask wearing in shops, public transport and places where high infection risks are prevalent.
 

road2ruin

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Yes, I do think there will be one. Infections are rising again along with hospitalisations and deaths, we know it will get worse in the winter and shortly when schools and Unis go back. Vaccinations do help to reduce serious illness but it's proportional, they don't stop people getting infected and many becoming very ill along with associated hospitalisations and deaths. If infections fall along with the associated health problems then I will hold up my hands and say I was wrong. Time will tell but I would be much happier with mandatory mask wearing in shops, public transport and places where high infection risks are prevalent.
Assuming there is another full lockdown do you think people will actually listen? Obviously people cannot stop shops etc shutting but whereas in the first lockdowns people did (generally) stop socialising etc I just cannot see it this time round. If you’ve been double jabbed and you have a group of friends who also have are you seriously going to spend winter indoors not seeing people? Personally, I won’t. I can’t stop them closing shops but I would not stop seeing friends and family etc.

The other question is still, if they lockdown this winter are we saying that this will become a seasonal lockdown? You can’t seriously expect the economy (or at least certain sectors) to survive if they’re told to close (or have significant restrictions) for 4/5 months a year?
 

SocketRocket

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Assuming there is another full lockdown do you think people will actually listen? Obviously people cannot stop shops etc shutting but whereas in the first lockdowns people did (generally) stop socialising etc I just cannot see it this time round. If you’ve been double jabbed and you have a group of friends who also have are you seriously going to spend winter indoors not seeing people? Personally, I won’t. I can’t stop them closing shops but I would not stop seeing friends and family etc.

The other question is still, if they lockdown this winter are we saying that this will become a seasonal lockdown? You can’t seriously expect the economy (or at least certain sectors) to survive if they’re told to close (or have significant restrictions) for 4/5 months a year?
What individuals do is up to their own conscience and what they can get away with. I would say most people would observe restrictions.

I can't forsee the future, new variations of Covid, better vaccinations etc are not in my gift to understand.
 

road2ruin

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What individuals do is up to their own conscience and what they can get away with. I would say most people would observe restrictions.

I can't forsee the future, new variations of Covid, better vaccinations etc are not in my gift to understand.
I guess my point is (re vaccinations), the present ones have an efficacy rate of around 90 odd %. If we’re going to enter full lockdown based on the present variant then there’s no hope.

I disagree that most would observe restrictions, I think with the present vaccination strategy and the success I personally cannot see people being told that they cannot see friends and family for another winter. At this point it’ll come down to personal responsibility, if you have a family member who is deemed vulnerable then you do what you need etc.
 

Ethan

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I think it is hard to call what will happen. Cases will rise, with schools and colleges back and more indoor stuff as weather declines, so the risk will increase a fair bit. Mask wearing is dropping off fast. But vaccination of 16 and 17 year olds, and presumably 12 to 15 year olds (even with only moderate take-up) will continue to constrain case numbers. I am not convinced about boosters that do not include updates for delta. Cases have been driven by unvaccinated lately, so reducing that risk pool will clearly help. The main wild card is if immunity falls off among the vaccinated. I think the story here is more complicated than presented in the media recently, because the period over which that has been studied has included changes in environmental risk and lockdown too, so a few moving parts.

So the question is how big that rise in cases is, and how well that is tolerated by the Govt. NHS winter pressures are a large factor too. The Govt hate the idea of being seen to reverse course, so will resist any steps, which will, ironically, make matters worse and possibly force greater ultimate action than would have been needed with earlier intervention. Unfortunately because a lot of different measures were all abandoned at the same time, we don't know which ones work better than the others, and there're which limited measures are most effective.

Another wildcard is more variants. If variant epsilon (next after delta) appears and it is a bad'un, resistant to vaccination, all bets are off.
 
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Billysboots

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What individuals do is up to their own conscience and what they can get away with. I would say most people would observe restrictions.

I can't forsee the future, new variations of Covid, better vaccinations etc are not in my gift to understand.
I genuinely don’t think that’s the case. Whilst, quite clearly, I cannot speak for all, the consensus amongst those I have discussed this with is that they will not observe any further lockdown, as to do so would make the pain of the periodic restrictions of the last eighteen months, and the whole vaccination program, pointless exercises. In short, they’ve had enough.

That’s not to say that many individuals will not continue to take personal responsibility with measures tailored to their circumstances and those of loved ones. Merely that they won’t follow further lockdowns.
 
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SocketRocket

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I genuinely don’t think that’s the case. Whilst, quite clearly, I cannot speak for all, the consensus amongst those I have discussed this with is that they will not observe any further lockdown, as to do so would make the pain of the periodic restrictions of the last eighteen months, and the whole vaccination program, pointless exercises. In short, they’ve had enough.

That’s not to say that many individuals will not continue to take personal responsibility with measures tailored to their circumstances and those of loved ones. Merely that they won’t follow further lockdowns.
I have suggested some small to moderate restrictions that make little difference to most people, not total lockdown. I think if we did this now we just may be able to stop things getting to a point where it could start to become very different to what we are seeing at the moment. People say things but when it comes to the crunch they often do what they are asked. You just have to look at what happens in other countries, I had a discussion with my cousin in New Zealand a few days ago, they are in total lockdown again after a small increase in infections, also look at what Hobbit tells us about Spain. I honestly think the vast majority will do what is asked of them. Your experience in the Police must have shown you that most British people will obey the law.
 

Swinglowandslow

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Yes, I do think there will be one. Infections are rising again along with hospitalisations and deaths, we know it will get worse in the winter and shortly when schools and Unis go back. Vaccinations do help to reduce serious illness but it's proportional, they don't stop people getting infected and many becoming very ill along with associated hospitalisations and deaths. If infections fall along with the associated health problems then I will hold up my hands and say I was wrong. Time will tell but I would be much happier with mandatory mask wearing in shops, public transport and places where high infection risks are prevalent.
You and Ethan are cherry picking when you say you didn't intend To refer to nightclubs, theatres etc.
How do you answer those who ask why they should be breaking the law not wearing a mask in a shop when others can crowd into nightclubs and theatres without masks and not be breaking the law.?
The latter venues are by their nature better "breeding grounds" for passing on the virus than any shop.
It is and always has been difficult asking people to abide by the law when there is no enforcement option, but we are now in an age -social media etc-
where it is easy to organise numbers to break the law together We've seen it happen, and in relation to Covid especially.
The real answer is to disadvantage the vaccine refusers.And publicise more the benefits of being vaccinated .
 
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