Club Dilema - Hybrid vs Iron

[mchacker]

Totally get where you're coming from, just ripped the rescue out of my bag in favour of a 5W - 3I set up, tried various hybrids and the ones I hit straight don't seem to go as far, and the ones I hit far go left. And they all go far too high, I have a high ball flight at the best of times so a heavy shafted iron will hopefully be my saviour in the wind this year

 

[Liqdaddymac]

3 iron and grip right down on a 3 wood and attempt high fade is my plan this year. Not a fan of hybrids - used to be but for whatever reason now I have already hooked it before gripping it #allinthehead

 

[One Planer]

Some interesting/valid replies come in so far.

Interesting Coach advocates playing the ball like an iron. I may give that a nudge at the range tomorrow.

 

[the_coach]

Some interesting/valid replies come in so far.

Interesting Coach advocates playing the ball like an iron. I may give that a nudge at the range tomorrow.

Yep, give it a go from your 3i ball position though.

Stick with it a bit even if your start with it's a bit hit & miss, the results will surprise you as you get the hang of it some.
As long as you're not getting club stuck behind you a bit, too much weight on the right side at strike as that will make it more difficult as swing will be too much from the inside and far too shallow.(which I'd guess is happening with the other two guys having problems with it too) The swing still comes from inside but arms & club need to be more infront of the chest & a downward AoA through impact as an iron.

Have a look at this video, it's Phil Rodgers, he has trouble getting out what's in his head about golf in sentences now, he really struggles sometimes sad to see and sad to hear, but what this guy doesn't know about all forms of golf, not just the short game teaching that he's famous for ... the guy may not sound it or look it ... but he's a genius.
Been very fortunate to meet and work with him a few times and what he's sees in swing at true speed with the naked eye, no video play back is truly amazing.

This video is not really as a whole about what I'm trying to explain except for really one thing PR says around about 2' 30" into the video and what he says there about the 3 metal is even more valid for the hybrids too, but the same is true for any 3,4,5 metal, hybrid or long iron hit from the ground.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrVIQGSajA0

 

[CMAC]

Yep, give it a go from your 3i ball position though.

Stick with it a bit even if your start with it's a bit hit & miss, the results will surprise you as you get the hang of it some.
As long as you're not getting club stuck behind you a bit, too much weight on the right side at strike as that will make it more difficult as swing will be too much from the inside and far too shallow.(which I'd guess is happening with the other two guys having problems with it too) The swing still comes from inside but arms & club need to be more infront of the chest & a downward AoA through impact as an iron.

Have a look at this video, it's Phil Rodgers, he has trouble getting out what's in his head about golf in sentences now, he really struggles sometimes sad to see and sad to hear, but what this guy doesn't know about all forms of golf, not just the short game teaching that he's famous for ... the guy may not sound it or look it ... but he's a genius.
Been very fortunate to meet and work with him a few times and what he's sees in swing at true speed with the naked eye, no video play back is truly amazing.

This video is not really as a whole about what I'm trying to explain except for really one thing PR says around about 2' 30" into the video and what he says there about the 3 metal is even more valid for the hybrids too, but the same is true for any 3,4,5 metal, hybrid or long iron hit from the ground.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrVIQGSajA0

he says you hit the ball first before turf! did I hear that correctly?

 

[CMAC]

Believe me Patrick, I share your confusion.

Every club in my bag has shown a marked improvement since taking lessons. Every club except the 910H. That's gone backwards!!!

so your 3 iron has improved, your 3w has improved, all irons have improved, your hybrid has gone backwards, you hate hybrids, you already know the answer!

You don't have to be able to hit every club well.

 

[One Planer]

so your 3 iron has improved, your 3w has improved, all irons have improved, your hybrid has gone backwards, you hate hybrids, you already know the answer!

Getting a 2 iron would be the obvious answer wouldn't it.

However

I do take the point people make about hybrids being more versatile than the equivalent iron. I may get a 2 iron just to have a play and see how it suits and how well, compared to the 910H, it fills the distance gap.

If I can pick one up cheap enough it may be worth investing, if only for a play.

I'm at the range at lunch today so I'll give the hybrid a run out and see if a change of ball position helps. If not, I have a decision to make.

 

[London mike 61]

Hi Gareth
i had this problem when I first used hybrids, they all went left with either a hook or power draw.

I cured this by altering my take away path which was too shallow ( I was trying to hit them like a wood with a sweeping action ) so when I took the club away from the ball almost in a straight line , I found that the ball flight was straighter and higher flight.

I also found that if I opened my left foot by 40 degrees or so , I got a gentle fade.

These are just my personal experiences but I hope they help you.

 

[the_coach]

he says you hit the ball first before turf! did I hear that correctly?

Yep, that's what he's saying, and he also says that the best 3 wood/metal ball strikers that there have ever been, all swing with a tad -AoA downward path, clean contact ball first, ground after.

So ball on ground with a 3 metal, it's ball first and the ground is scraped/bruised/small divot (however you wish to describe it) the lowest point of the swings arc is the target side of the ball.

This means you get the face & sweetspot reliably on the ball consistently so you can transfer all the SS energy to the BS that's possible too, also more reliably get ball & centered hit for optimum flight, SR plus as the swing path is nearer to In to In more consistent accuracy.

If you try to sweep a 3 metal, 4 or 5, reliably getting the sole to pass the ground level a millimeter off surface to get centered sweetspot contact without ground contact before impact, the success rate of that will be extremely low.(in that not getting sole contact before impact)
That ground contact first/or at the same time, either will rob you of BS plus affect SR as that sole ground contact moves the connection thru impact to the bottom of the face of the club also.

I put the link to the '3 metal comment' to emphasize what should be happening with the swing with a hybrid.

As this is even more so the case with a higher lofted, shorter shafted hybrid where contact and the swings intent should be the same as that of a 2i or 3i,4i etc. -AoA, ball contact first, divot after.
That's what will get you best consistent contact, distance, flight & accuracy with any hybrid or long iron.

 

[CMAC]

Yep, that's what he's saying, and he also says that the best 3 wood/metal ball strikers that there have ever been, all swing with a tad -AoA downward path, clean contact ball first, ground after.

So ball on ground with a 3 metal, it's ball first and the ground is scraped/bruised/small divot (however you wish to describe it) the lowest point of the swings arc is the target side of the ball.

This means you get the face & sweetspot reliably on the ball consistently so you can transfer all the SS energy to the BS that's possible too, also more reliably get ball & centered hit for optimum flight, SR plus as the swing path is nearer to In to In more consistent accuracy.

If you try to sweep a 3 metal, 4 or 5, reliably getting the sole to pass the ground level a millimeter off surface to get centered sweetspot contact without ground contact before impact, the success rate of that will be extremely low.(in that not getting sole contact before impact)
That ground contact first/or at the same time, either will rob you of BS plus affect SR as that sole ground contact moves the connection thru impact to the bottom of the face of the club also.

I put the link to the '3 metal comment' to emphasize what should be happening with the swing with a hybrid.

As this is even more so the case with a higher lofted, shorter shafted hybrid where contact and the swings intent should be the same as that of a 2i or 3i,4i etc. -AoA, ball contact first, divot after.
That's what will get you best consistent contact, distance, flight & accuracy with any hybrid or long iron.

Thanks coach for confirming- but isn't that what we're all supposed to do anyway? it's certainly the way I've learned for all my life in golf, just seems he's stating something very obvious we all know about and try to do with every shot. Sorry, not having a go just confused as to why thats highlighted as some amazing insight by the man.

 

[the_coach]

Thanks coach for confirming- but isn't that what we're all supposed to do anyway? it's certainly the way I've learned for all my life in golf, just seems he's stating something very obvious we all know about and try to do with every shot. Sorry, not having a go just confused as to why thats highlighted as some amazing insight by the man.

You'd be amazed how many golfers (even a few pro's in that) think they are searching for a 'sweeping motion' making no divot of any sort target side, particularly with the 3 metal, 4 (not used so much), & 5.

A whole bunch of ams (handicap golfers) still think you don't swing with a -AoA and that you really should be looking to take a divot (target side only) with all hybrids and long irons. Glad you not one of them

My hunch reading what you said, I think (if I remember right & that's you & not someone else), about your own problems with hybrids, will likely to be the club getting a little but stuck behind you, coming down that'll mean you're coming into impact too much from the inside if the problems are true hooks. (either starting on line then hooking left quite some, or starting slightly right of target line then crossing back that line & curving left by some distance)
If though the start line is slightly left of the ball target line & going some left in a curve, that's a different issue at the cause of it.

 

[clubchamp98]

Gentlemen, I have a quandary.

I've been playing the 910H now for the past year or so with, to be honest, mixed results.

The regulars on here know I share Brendy's dislike of hybrids, however my had was forced when I brought the MP63's as I had quite a gap between my 3 iron and 4 wood, as you would probably expect. The 19° 910H bridges the gap nicely when it behaves, but it has far too many off days for my liking.

I used to find it easy to hit, however since taking lessons, the only consistent shot I seem to be able to hit with it is a booming, uncontrollable draw, border line hook. You know the one. The ball starts out to the right and moves left to, and past, your target . I've tried various changes to ball position and the like to improve/cure the strong flight to no avail.

Thing is, I hit my 3 and 4 irons either straight, or with a tiny draw with a medium to high flight. Just what I'm looking for. The flight, shape and distance are all semi-predictable, a complete contrast to the 910H.

I have more confidence in hitting the 3 iron from my set than a, supposedly, more forgiving, easier to hit hybrid.

To this end, I'm considering giving a 2 iron a trial.

A slight issue on this is that Mizuno don't offer a 2 iron as part of the MP63 line.

There are plenty of 2 irons kicking about on eBay from various manufacturers. Mizuno have plenty of offerings with prices ranging from £20-£50 with various models from the older TP series to the more modern MP offerings. There are also MP Fli-Hi and H4 hybrid clubs on in the same price bracket and availability.

What do you good people think? Worth a trial to see how it goes?

All opinions appreciated :thup:

I would say your problem is the shaft Hybrid shafts are heavier than driver / 3 woods but lighter than steel so the shaft is the most important element.

 

[CMAC]

You'd be amazed how many golfers (even a few pro's in that) think they are searching for a 'sweeping motion' making no divot of any sort target side, particularly with the 3 metal, 4 (not used so much), & 5.

A whole bunch of ams (handicap golfers) still think you don't swing with a -AoA and that you really should be looking to take a divot (target side only) with all hybrids and long irons. Glad you not one of them

My hunch reading what you said, I think (if I remember right & that's you & not someone else), about your own problems with hybrids, will likely to be the club getting a little but stuck behind you, coming down that'll mean you're coming into impact too much from the inside if the problems are true hooks. (either starting on line then hooking left quite some, or starting slightly right of target line then crossing back that line & curving left by some distance)
If though the start line is slightly left of the ball target line & going some left in a curve, that's a different issue at the cause of it.

nope, not me I find the hybrid a bit like cheating it's that easy to hit:thup:

 

[Westy3469]

nope, not me I find the hybrid a bit like cheating it's that easy to hit:thup:

Wish I could say the same, mine sits in the cupboard as it's cost me too many shots and lost balls