Club cup winners vs hcp

Banchory Buddha said:
It's not just that, when we switched to WHS, anyone 3 or under generally got one shot if not 2 shots cut from their handicap, the sweet spot seemed to be 5-7 that didn't chnge much, and those over started getting progressively more shots than they had under WHS
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1) Have you got the data ?

2) WHS - did you mean UHS ?
 
Banchory Buddha said:
It's not just that, when we switched to WHS, anyone 3 or under generally got one shot if not 2 shots cut from their handicap, the sweet spot seemed to be 5-7 that didn't chnge much, and those over started getting progressively more shots than they had under WHS
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Same in OZ when we switched, the single figure guys lost 1-2 shots and 10-25 went 1-2 shots, then those over 25 were crazy, remember a friend got 4 extra shots, went from 31 to 35.
 
rulefan said:
1) Has the this been published anywhere? Other than 'I have heard' or 'it was in a magazine' etc
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No, it's not "I have heard", it's what happened at my club where I'm handicap sec, as a stats geek I went through our players.

Same scenario happened elsewhere locally. Maybe Aberdeenshire was unique? 🤔.

I'm surprised someone who knows everything wasn't aware of this?
 
Banchory Buddha said:
No, it's not "I have heard", it's what happened at my club where I'm handicap sec, as a stats geek I went through our players.

Same scenario happened elsewhere locally. Maybe Aberdeenshire was unique? 🤔.

I'm surprised someone who knows everything wasn't aware of this?
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No reports of it happening around here

Banchory Buddha said:
I'm surprised someone who knows everything wasn't aware of this?
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Not something I have ever claimed.
 
It is a cliche but in any competition its about how well I can do with my own score. If someone else has a better score irrespective of handicap there is nothing I can do about it. I simply think if they are a high handicapper the system will cut them as appropriate. No point worrying about it
 
I've just looked through all of our major/board comp winners this year, because I was curious as much as anything. Here are the results.

Notes: PH is playing handicap, their index will generally be a shot or two higher since we all lose shots at my course. p = points, otherwise it's net score (our par is 68). The [+6] was a bogey comp.

1728905583309.png

Not a single figure player in sight. In fact only two people who are lower than me! And I'm crap. :LOL:
 
Banchory Buddha said:
No, it's not "I have heard", it's what happened at my club where I'm handicap sec, as a stats geek I went through our players.

Same scenario happened elsewhere locally. Maybe Aberdeenshire was unique? 🤔.

I'm surprised someone who knows everything wasn't aware of this?
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Just an observation, but you do lose a bit of credibility when you conclude pretty much every reply to people who hold a different view to yourself with some sort of insult.
 
Orikoru said:
I've just looked through all of our major/board comp winners this year, because I was curious as much as anything. Here are the results.

Notes: PH is playing handicap, their index will generally be a shot or two higher since we all lose shots at my course. p = points, otherwise it's net score (our par is 68). The [+6] was a bogey comp.

View attachment 55372

Not a single figure player in sight. In fact only two people who are lower than me! And I'm crap. :LOL:
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Very interesting, thank you for sharing. In comparison, it seems we have more trophy comps than an “average” club and possibly more lower hcp players so that they are more successful in them?
 
Banchory Buddha said:
No, it's not "I have heard", it's what happened at my club where I'm handicap sec, as a stats geek I went through our players.

Same scenario happened elsewhere locally. Maybe Aberdeenshire was unique? 🤔.

I'm surprised someone who knows everything wasn't aware of this?
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same at clubs around here. at Nairn everyone that was 5 and under lost a shot or 2 and everyone over gained. Nairn Dunbar was the same and the Inverness clubs too.
 
VVega said:
Very interesting, thank you for sharing. In comparison, it seems we have more trophy comps than an “average” club and possibly more lower hcp players so that they are more successful in them?
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This is a fair point that I forgot to note. If I scan through our member directory, there are actually only around 20 or 21 single figure handicap players in the club.
 
Banchory Buddha said:
No, it's not "I have heard", it's what happened at my club where I'm handicap sec, as a stats geek I went through our players.

Same scenario happened elsewhere locally. Maybe Aberdeenshire was unique? 🤔.

I'm surprised someone who knows everything wasn't aware of this?
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Not unique to Aberdeenshire it also happened at my club in Northumberland. The low guys went lower, around 5-8 handicaps stayed roughly the same and the rest gained some shots.
 
Springveldt said:
Not unique to Aberdeenshire it also happened at my club in Northumberland. The low guys went lower, around 5-8 handicaps stayed roughly the same and the rest gained some shots.
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Yup, same for the guys at my club at the time. That'll be why a lot of people have concluded that WHS punishes consistency and rewards inconsistency.
 
I think it's because of the slope rating, my old club has a slope of 139 so there were guys getting a few shots more on their playing handicap in WHS compared to CONGU. I'm sure one of my mates was around 12 under CONGU and when WHS came in he had an index of 11 or so and his playing handicap was then 14.
 
Whereditgo said:
Just an observation, but you do lose a bit of credibility when you conclude pretty much every reply to people who hold a different view to yourself with some sort of insult.
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I do tend to have a habit of responding in kind. (y)
 
Orikoru said:
This is a fair point that I forgot to note. If I scan through our member directory, there are actually only around 20 or 21 single figure handicap players in the club.
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Out of how many?

I've checked ours and it seems we have over 30% single digit players... Frankly, I hadn't appreciated we have so many... explains why we had a new tee built at over 200 yds on a par 3 - which of course benefits them even more (I'm generalising as some might not be long hitters:).
 
VVega said:
For all concerns about club comps being dominated by high hcp players, here is some stats from our club.

Dataset: 26 winners of club trophy/cup comps (entry hcp is limited to 20).

Mean hcp: 8.6
Standard deviation: 5.5
75% percentile 12.1

In other words, more than half of the winners are single digit hcp players and 3/4 are not even in the teens.
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To add to this... over 75% of our members are under 20.
 
VVega said:
Out of how many?

I've checked ours and it seems we have over 30% single digit players... Frankly, I hadn't appreciated we have so many... explains why we had a new tee built at over 200 yds on a par 3 - which of course benefits them even more (I'm generalising as some might not be long hitters:).
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I don't know, I'm not counting that high. 😄 It's probably somewhere between 350 and 400 members in total.
 
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