Clearing left hip in the down swing - Leg flex question.

[One Planer]

Experts of the forum, I'm in need of your advice.

Over recent posts of mine, you've probably noticed I'm working on a better hip action in the downswing. It's getting there slowly, but surely, and now I have a question to pose.

In my backswing I have always allowed my right leg to straighten. The knee doesn't lock out, but loses most of its flex.

I've always done this since I started playing and never really gave it any consideration as I felt it gave me a much fuller hip turn.

Now.

At the minute, I've been having difficulty keeping my shoulders from following my hips in the downswing. My first move from the top of the back swing is to get my hips moving left while rotating, clearing my left hip. My problem is my shoulders sometimes follow, taking me over the top, causing a pull.

I did a little practice this morning, focusing mainly on maintaining the flex in my right leg to the top of the backswing. Like this:



When I got to the top, the coiled feeling was much stronger in my right leg than usual and, from the top, I found it easier to turn my hips through and clear the left side while keeping my shoulder out of the swing.

This left me

Could it be that losing the flex in my right knee and allowing it to straighten could be the source of my problems?

Can allowing your right leg to straighten contribute to an OTT move from the top?

Any help/opinions, as always, are appreciated :thup:

 

[JustOne]

Depends on the depth of your hips (at address and top of your swing).

It's not really about what is happening with your leg, it's what's happening with your hips. Take a look at the pic of Luke Donald, his belt buckle is still practically pointing at the ball - not very much hip turn, whereas if you watch someone like Bubba (who makes a huge hip turn and straightens his trailing leg) then you can see just how much hip turn he makes.

Here's a good one of Bubba... if you watch at about 50 seconds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGYfe0r1xLY

assuming your belt buckle is at about 90 degrees to the target line at address then he gets his to 180 degrees

 

[SocketRocket]

Hi Gareth.

I know you have been working on how your hips move and clear and this latest post regarding your right knee seems to be part of what you are working on.

I would suggest that you are thinking too much on these swing mechanics and if not careful will be suffering from paralyses by analyses. I would further suggest that if you focused more of the output required, the inputs (swing mechanics) would tend to take care of themselves. Our brain has learned over time how to carry out certain actions so that we can achieve the physical objectives in the most efficient manner, allowing our bodies to utilise momentum for the best results. Actions like throwing a spear, ball, rock, swinging an axe etc come to mind. When doing this we don't focus on our hips weight shift, leg flex etc but more on the target, trajectory and distance, then let our brains work out the most efficient manner to propel the object.

I have heard before that the act of throwing a golf club down a field creates a fluid, effective golf swing without considering mechanics.

I had a sift through YouTube and found this one by Shaun Clements that explains this quite well. I hope it assists you:

[video=youtube;mhhxB6izKro]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhhxB6izKro[/video]

 

[One Planer]

Depends on the depth of your hips (at address and top of your swing).

It's not really about what is happening with your leg, it's what's happening with your hips. Take a look at the pic of Luke Donald, his belt buckle is still practically pointing at the ball - not very much hip turn, whereas if you watch someone like Bubba (who makes a huge hip turn and straightens his trailing leg) then you can see just how much hip turn he makes.

Here's a good one of Bubba... if you watch at about 50 seconds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGYfe0r1xLY

assuming your belt buckle is at about 90 degrees to the target line at address then he gets his to 180 degrees

Thanks for that James.

I suppose the main difference between Bubba and Luke is the distance they get off the tee.

Bubba really winds himself up, where as Donald seems more controlled. Bubba more distance orientated, Luke more accuracy.

Bigger hip turn, more power?

 

[One Planer]

Hi Gareth.

I know you have been working on how your hips move and clear and this latest post regarding your right knee seems to be part of what you are working on.

I would suggest that you are thinking too much on these swing mechanics and if not careful will be suffering from paralyses by analyses. I would further suggest that if you focused more of the output required, the inputs (swing mechanics) would tend to take care of themselves. Our brain has learned over time how to carry out certain actions so that we can achieve the physical objectives in the most efficient manner, allowing our bodies to utilise momentum for the best results. Actions like throwing a spear, ball, rock, swinging an axe etc come to mind. When doing this we don't focus on our hips weight shift, leg flex etc but more on the target, trajectory and distance, then let our brains work out the most efficient manner to propel the object.

I have heard before that the act of throwing a golf club down a field creates a fluid, effective golf swing without considering mechanics.

I had a sift through YouTube and found this one by Shaun Clements that explains this quite well. I hope it assists you:

[video=youtube;mhhxB6izKro]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhhxB6izKro[/video]

I agree pretty much with all this, except the bit in the middle.

I agree our bodies learn to do things, however that doesn't make the movement they learn correct.

My previous swing, before taking lessons felt fine, to me, but clearly wasn't correct as the results dictated.

Our bodies learn the habit of doing something, be it right or wrong, until it feels natural, again sometimes ingraining the wrong thing.

As I said I agree with what you say, but feel there is still a need to understand so I can improve.

 

[SocketRocket]

I agree pretty much with all this, except the bit in the middle.

I agree our bodies learn to do things, however that doesn't make the movement they learn correct.

My previous swing, before taking lessons felt fine, to me, but clearly wasn't correct as the results dictated.

Our bodies learn the habit of doing something, be it right or wrong, until it feels natural, again sometimes ingraining the wrong thing.

As I said I agree with what you say, but feel there is still a need to understand so I can improve.

Gareth,

Many problems in golf are due to filling our heads with things that remove us from our natural instincts. Imagine someone showing you how to throw a cricket ball underhanded by explaining how the hips should clear, the weight shifting from the back foot to the front, the head staying back, the right arm folding and then releasing, the elbow leading the wrist in the forward throw etc etc. You would end up having your head full of clutter.

Many people start out paying golf with a nice easy swing that works well, this is especially true in kids. They then get coached into over thinking the action and never get it back again.

Just throw the iron down the field: :thup:

 

[JustOne]

Bigger hip turn, more power?

Sort of, different pieces work with other different pieces.

Let's say you didn't have much hip turn, but you did straighten your right leg, this action would cause your right hip to go UP because your right leg is getting longer when you straighten it.... but we don't want the hip to go UP as it throws your upper body towards the target, we want the right hip to go BACK thereby creating enough space for the right leg to actually be straightened.

The more you turn your right hip back the more your right leg can (and will) straighten. But it can't if your not moving you're right hip back - does that make sense? So the hips are the key... and to a degree what you are doing at set up will dictate what you can/can't do with your hips. If your legs are too straight, your bum too far forward or your knees too bent then you are already on a hiding to nothing even before you bother swinging.


So.... if your hip has come UP rather than back you've now loaded your left hip in such a way that it physically can't get out of the way, you'd have to flip your entire body around (spin) to hit the ball because your left hip won't be deep enough.

I like to think of it that i want my left hip out of the way... so the more I tuck it under and away from the ball at address (good pelvic tilt and spine angle) the less work i need to do on the downswing to 'back it out of the way', if that makes sense.... basically a good set up makes the backswing and downswing work better.