Celtic - lucky or not!

[GreiginFife]

I reckon the ability and talent of the players makes the league good or not as opposed to the nationality of the player.

Bingo! The moneymen and the majority of fans dont care a jot about nationality as long as the top end teans challenge and the rest survive. Too much money to risk taking un-necessary risks with players of lesser talent just because theu happen to be English.
It does mean that the English ones that do make the grade get over inflated price tags IMO.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Bingo! The moneymen and the majority of fans dont care a jot about nationality as long as the top end teans challenge and the rest survive. Too much money to risk taking un-necessary risks with players of lesser talent just because theu happen to be English.
It does mean that the English ones that do make the grade get over inflated price tags IMO.

100% spot on mate

I like that we have some good young english players but the overall ability of the squad is the main priority for me

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Bingo! The moneymen and the majority of fans dont care a jot about nationality as long as the top end teans challenge and the rest survive. Too much money to risk taking un-necessary risks with players of lesser talent just because theu happen to be English.
It does mean that the English ones that do make the grade get over inflated price tags IMO.

The problem is though the English players don't get their opportunities. They struggle to make the adjustment and although the national side at U17, U19 and U21 levels are in a reasonable state of health, they never really get to progress. Yes, there are the likes of Sturridge and others who do make the breakthrough but the majority end up farmed out on loan to lower divisions. The pool of players to pick a national team from is shrinking and it's a problem that needs addressing if England are ever going to be a potential challenger in any major comp

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Just Liverpool then.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The problem is though the English players don't get their opportunities. They struggle to make the adjustment and although the national side at U17, U19 and U21 levels are in a reasonable state of health, they never really get to progress. Yes, there are the likes of Sturridge and others who do make the breakthrough but the majority end up farmed out on loan to lower divisions. The pool of players to pick a national team from is shrinking and it's a problem that needs addressing if England are ever going to be a potential challenger in any major comp

If they are good enough they will get their chance - quite simple really.

Players get picked on ability not nationality

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Just Liverpool then.

Im still struggling to see the point you are trying to make in regards Celtic ?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

If they are good enough they will get their chance - quite simple really.

Players get picked on ability not nationality

Nope. Only a handful of recent U19 and U21's have gone onto play REGULAR PL football. Most go out on loan. Yes there are those that have made it but the majority aren't getting enough first team football. It was crystal clear in the Dyke report

 

[NWJocko]

Its not far off though - maybe about League 1 standard

League 1 is a million miles from a "pub league".

As a general question, does it give you some satisfaction putting all things Scottish down? We know we're rubbish at football, why do you continually try to make comparisons to the EPL? Like comparing NBA to Scottish high school basketball. Almost different sports due to the money involved in each.

In the independence thread/debate there is comments on how Scottish people dislike the way they are "looked down on" by the English as a case for independence. Your attitude (at least such as these threads portray) is pretty much exactly what those people mean.

Fwiw it doesn't bother me, makes me how much you have bought into the uber hype of the "best league in the world". Each to their own though :thup:

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Nope. Only a handful of recent U19 and U21's have gone onto play REGULAR PL football. Most go out on loan. Yes there are those that have made it but the majority aren't getting enough first team football. It was crystal clear in the Dyke report

What do you mean nope ?

If a player is good enough he will get picked - regardless of his nationality - if U19s etc dont go on to play regular Prem football its because they couldn't make the grade regardless of the nationality.

Clubs responsibilty is to themselves and their fans - they want to find the best team not the English team - Dykes report at the end of the day is meaningless - it will amount to nothing of any significance to the clubs - they will continue to do what is best for them.

 

[GreiginFife]

Nope. Only a handful of recent U19 and U21's have gone onto play REGULAR PL football. Most go out on loan. Yes there are those that have made it but the majority aren't getting enough first team football. It was crystal clear in the Dyke report

Homer, this re-enforces my point. I have no doubt that England will and do have some talented kids. The issue isnt that they dont get chances, the issue is that the moneymen won't allow the risk to give them a chance.
The global game has been turned in to a business and in doing so has made it success at all costs.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

League 1 is a million miles from a "pub league".

As a general question, does it give you some satisfaction putting all things Scottish down? We know we're rubbish at football, why do you continually try to make comparisons to the EPL? Like comparing NBA to Scottish high school basketball. Almost different sports due to the money involved in each.

In the independence thread/debate there is comments on how Scottish people dislike the way they are "looked down on" by the English as a case for independence. Your attitude (at least such as these threads portray) is pretty much exactly what those people mean.

Fwiw it doesn't bother me, makes me how much you have bought into the uber hype of the "best league in the world". Each to their own though :thup:

I spent a good 4 years growing up in Scotland - watched a good deal os Scottish football in that time - so im more sad to see the state of it right now

As for comparisons - when one person on here keeps trying to compare the two - people will respond to those comparisons.

As for "best league in the world" - well it will all come down on what you are using to judge - it certainly has a lot of things goign for it that would put it up there

 

[NWJocko]

I spent a good 4 years growing up in Scotland - watched a good deal os Scottish football in that time - so im more sad to see the state of it right now

As for comparisons - when one person on here keeps trying to compare the two - people will respond to those comparisons.

As for "best league in the world" - well it will all come down on what you are using to judge - it certainly has a lot of things goign for it that would put it up there

I'm sure the EPL is one of the best, makes no odds to me.

You may not be and i mean no offence but your posts seem to come across as a Sky/EPL generation fan. The English game was in a poor state,relative to today before the Sky money started rolling in however the hype around some of the garbage in the EPL is off the scale. English fans seem to have forgotten that.

In many ways it wasn't dissimilar to Scotland now, no real tv cash, very few foreign players and very rarely would the top tier players end up at an English team, more likely to be found in Spain and Italy.

As I say, no offence intended.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Homer, this re-enforces my point. I have no doubt that England will and do have some talented kids. The issue isnt that they dont get chances, the issue is that the moneymen won't allow the risk to give them a chance.
The global game has been turned in to a business and in doing so has made it success at all costs.

I agree with you. The point is by looking after their own interests and getting the best players from around the world, these youngsters get squeezed out by and large. That can only reduce the talent pool for the national side to pick and invest in the next crop. Look at the likes of Germany, Holland and Spain who have all played very young players in friendlies and developed them through and compare it to England still picking the same squads all the time

However I'm conscious this is probably a separate discussion now and gone way off the tangent of Celtic's reinclusion into the CL. Not wanting to trash this further I'll drop out for now

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I'm sure the EPL is one of the best, makes no odds to me.

You may not be and i mean no offence but your posts seem to come across as a Sky/EPL generation fan. The English game was in a poor state,relative to today before the Sky money started rolling in however the hype around some of the garbage in the EPL is off the scale. English fans seem to have forgotten that.

In many ways it wasn't dissimilar to Scotland now, no real tv cash, very few foreign players and very rarely would the top tier players end up at an English team, more likely to be found in Spain and Italy.

As I say, no offence intended.

Most certainly not a Sky fan etc and the game was different back then - but unless i have missed a few years i cant rememebr it being in a poor state

In the 70-80's it ws up there with the best in Europe - we had the European ban and the league was still strong until that was lifted and then we continued to win trophies in Europe to show our league was still strong and it has continued in that vein.

In the 80's not many foreign players did come into the league - there were quotas and clubs were having the odd one - money wasnt controlling players - teh English clubs still had some of the best in Europe playing in them - but back then the transfer were very different - a lot of players just stayed at home.

 

[NWJocko]

Most certainly not a Sky fan etc and the game was different back then - but unless i have missed a few years i cant rememebr it being in a poor state

In the 70-80's it ws up there with the best in Europe - we had the European ban and the league was still strong until that was lifted and then we continued to win trophies in Europe to show our league was still strong and it has continued in that vein.

In the 80's not many foreign players did come into the league - there were quotas and clubs were having the odd one - money wasnt controlling players - teh English clubs still had some of the best in Europe playing in them - but back then the transfer were very different - a lot of players just stayed at home.

I'm not getting into you're tit for tat as you are always right.

Late 80's early 90s the English league was in a poor state relative to today context is everything.

Football is unrecognisable today, remember even pub league teams won European trophies/ reached finals in the 60/70/80s

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I'm not getting into you're tit for tat as you are always right.

:thup::thup:

And the first British winners of the European cup was???????

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I'm not getting into you're tit for tat as you are always right.

Late 80's early 90s the English league was in a poor state relative to today context is everything.

Football is unrecognisable today, remember even pub league teams won European trophies/ reached finals in the 60/70/80s

Its not tit for tat im just responding to your point

You mention the late 80's and early 90's - well at that stage i reckon there was prob one of the best teams ever seen in British football - the Liverpool of the 88-90 with Barnes etc ability wise was just out of this world - its a shame they never were tested in Europe.

And yes Scottish football was doing well in the 70/80s etc

 

[NWJocko]

:thup::thup:

And the first British winners of the European cup was???????

Glasgow and District select!

Could be wrong but sure all the players were born within 30 miles of Celtic Park or something similar....

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Its not tit for tat im just responding to your point

You mention the late 80's and early 90's - well at that stage i reckon there was prob one of the best teams ever seen in British football - the Liverpool of the 88-90 with Barnes etc ability wise was just out of this world - its a shame they never were tested in Europe.

And yes Scottish football was doing well in the 70/80s etc

And yet even a pub side like Wimbledon would have been eligible for Europe as cup winners.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

:thup::thup:

And the first British winners of the European cup was???????

Homer didnt you just ask me to stop hassling you yet here you are highlighting a post having a dig at me ? Bit double standards dont you think ?