Can you declare your ball unplayable without seeing it?

[Simon Bennett]

Hi Folks

This question is at the root of a debate in our club, as to whether you can declare a ball unplayable from the tee using Rule 19.1 e.g. you carve your drive into brambles, and instead of taking the provisional ball/lost route, you opt to declare it unplayable without looking for it, as under Rule 19.1 you are able to declare any ball unplayable that is not in a penalty.

The spirit behind the thought, was that it could simply speed up play if everyone had the right to declare a ball unplayable in any event and could make an immediate declaration that they were putting another ball in play under stroke and distant penalty. We had an example where a second ball is teed up and declared as the Ball in Play immediately, not with a lost ball declaration (which we know cannot be made), but with a Unplayable Ball Declaration and 3 off the tee.

So central to the debate is whether there is the requirement to identify the ball as your own before you can declare it unplayable? Common sense says you must, but we cannot find it stated explicitly anywhere?

Cheers for any help.

Simon.

 

[ventura]

Rule 19.2

• The player may take stroke-and-distance relief under Rule 19.2a even if the original ball has not been found and identified.

Seems clear to me you can declare that unplayable without finding it first.

 

[Pants]

Just put another ball down and hit it taking a stroke and distance penalty (i.e. 3 off the tee). You don't have to declare anything.

 

[Colin L]

You might like to add to that, Simon, that there is no requirement to declare that you are taking unplayable ball relief. It's entirely down to the player to decide that it is...... as Pants has just said while I was typing.

 

[rosecott]

Yes, you cannot declare the ball unplayable but you can take an action which renders it unplayable.

If I happened to find what I thought to be your ball before you play another, you must identify it (or otherwise) before you take any such action.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

My tee shot veers off line into deep doggie-doo in the land where there be dragons…

Playing partner: “Ooh, that’s going to be a toughie, even if you find it.
Me: Indeed. I’ll just put a new ball into play right now.
Playing partner: Will we look for your first ball?
Me: I might if I can be bothered, but even if I find it it’s out of play as I’ve put a new ball into play and I’m three off the tee.

…and just to add fun to the OPs club debate he can remind his chums that a found ball doesn’t need to be unplayable to take S&D.

 

[backwoodsman]

Yes, you cannot declare the ball unplayable but you can take an action which renders it unplayable.

If I happened to find what I thought to be your ball before you play another, you must identify it (or otherwise) before you take any such action.

???

As other have said, you don't need to find it to play another ball - as you can take stroke & distance relief any time you like.

But if they so choose, a player can declare it unplayable without finding it - as the declaration is no more/no less than the player's personal decision on the situation regarding the ball's lie. And the player's decision on this is final. How the ball is actually lying is irrelevant.

Worth pointing out that the ball must be on the course, and not in a penalty area to be able to be 'unplayable' - but given that the same relief option exists for OOB, penalty area, unplayable, and 'stroke & distance' it will be a moot point.

 

[rulefan]

The Rule (19.1) makes no mention of 'declaring' a ball unplayable.

19.1 Player May 'Decide' to Take Unplayable Ball Relief Anywhere Except Penalty Area
A player is the only person who may 'decide' to treat their ball as unplayable by taking penalty relief under Rule 19.2 or 19.3.
The player may take stroke-and-distance relief under Rule 19.2a even if the original ball has not been found and identified.

As the dictionary defines declare as 'to announce something clearly, firmly, publicly, or officially' there is no need to say anything to anyone.

 

[Steven Rules]

If I happened to find what I thought to be your ball before you play another, you must identify it (or otherwise) before you take any such action.

This only applies if a provisonal ball has been played (see Rule 18.3c(3)) and that does not seem to be the scenario in this thread.

 

[Neilds]

I might be being a bit pedantic, but that is the way of the forum
By playing a 2nd ball, are you not making the first ball lost/out of play rather than unplayable? Same end result but different terminology

 

[DickInShorts]

Surely it’s much simpler than unplayable etc?

When I’ve hit my ball into jungle (and don’t want to find it knowing likely option is to go back to last point played from) I’ve just played another under S&D but also clarified that I’m NOT playing a provisional so there is no mid-understanding by my PPs

 

[rulefan]

I might be being a bit pedantic, but that is the way of the forum
By playing a 2nd ball, are you not making the first ball lost/out of play rather than unplayable? Same end result but different terminology

Yes, by playing under S&D your first ball is now out of play (not defined) as opposed to the defined term 'in play'.
It is not lost (as defined).
Unplayable is not defined in the Rules but only the player can consider a ball to be in that state.

 

[jim8flog]

Excluding stroke and distance which you can do 'without reason' simply by playing another ball.

If you want to take any of the other options such as line of sight/play the ball must be identified

It would be covered by

• But to take back-on-the-line relief under Rule 19.2b or lateral relief under Rule
19.2c, the player must know the spot of the original ball.

If you cannot identify the ball how do you know the 'spot'

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Yes, by playing under S&D your first ball is now out of play (not defined) as opposed to the defined term 'in play'.
It is not lost (as defined).
Unplayable is not defined in the Rules but only the player can consider a ball to be in that state.

BIB…and in practice the ball might actually be perfectly playable, indeed could be sitting beautifully in the middle of the fairway, but it so happens that the player just really doesn’t fancy the shot he’s facing…

 

[Orikoru]

Surely it’s much simpler than unplayable etc?

When I’ve hit my ball into jungle (and don’t want to find it knowing likely option is to go back to last point played from) I’ve just played another under S&D but also clarified that I’m NOT playing a provisional so there is no mid-understanding by my PPs

Exactly. The whole 'declaring it unplayable' part of the OP is superfluous. If you don't like where it's gone just put a new ball in play straight away and hit 3 off the tee.

 

[rosecott]

This only applies if a provisonal ball has been played (see Rule 18.3c(3)) and that does not seem to be the scenario in this thread.

Yes, I posted too early this morning. I was thinking about a provisional having been played which the player thought would be a much better proposition than the original - if found.

 

[Jigger]

Surely declaring a lost ball under rule 18.1 is just as easy now? There used to be issues if the ball was found but this has changed.


From 18.1:
Once the player puts another ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance (see Rule 14.4):

• The original ball is no longer in play and must not be played.
• This is true even if the original ball is then found on the course before the end of the three-minute search time (see Rule 6.3b).

Seems you are covered either way to be fair.

 

[Colin L]

D

Surely declaring a lost ball under rule 18.1 is just as easy now? There used to be issues if the ball was found but this has changed.


From 18.1:
Once the player puts another ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance (see Rule 14.4):

• The original ball is no longer in play and must not be played.
• This is true even if the original ball is then found on the course before the end of the three-minute search time (see Rule 6.3b).

Seems you are covered either way to be fair.

Forget "declaring" a ball lost. It is meaningless in terms of the rules. Just get on with putting another ball into play from the right place.

 

[Jigger]

D


Forget "declaring" a ball lost. It is meaningless in terms of the rules. Just get on with putting another ball into play from the right place.

I get all that but I’m just showcasing other options for the OP.

 

[Steven Rules]

Surely declaring a lost ball under rule 18.1 is just as easy now? There used to be issues if the ball was found but this has changed

I get all that but I’m just showcasing other options for the OP.

What other options? The stroke-and-distance option has been mentioned already in #2, #3, #7, #8, #11, #12, #15.

Also, "lost" isn't mentioned once in 18.1.

Also, what were the "issues" previously if the ball was found and when did this change? I suspect you may be thinking of the same scenario as rosecott in #5.