Can greens be too firm?

[eltub1]

After having a couple of guests to my club this week, and the members & guests being played over the weekend i have heard a few people moaning that the greens are to hard as they cant hold the ball on them(they take the view that if you hit the green then the ball should stay on it). The club has taken the route on guidance from the R&A to firm up the greens and make them traditional links type greens thus making them tougher to play, but as a result of this they have made the rough more playable (going on the thinking that they will make scoring tougher by putting/chipping rather than punish everyone in the rough and slowing play). I think it adds to the challenge of playing when you have to map your route out to the flag rather than having soft greens where you can just bomb the pin with long/short irons.Whats everyones views on this.

 

[RGDave]

I like Links greens and enjoy running balls in. A short iron or wedge will always stop, but it's the mid-irons and fairways that are fun. Links do tend to have big greens and there's nearly always some route, expecting to fly over a bunker and stop with a 5 iron wouldn't be in the spirit.

 

[ScienceBoy]

I don't think golfers of most levels can complain about firm greens BUT there is a big difference between a poor hard green and a good firm green.

A poor hard surface is unacceptable, a fantastic true firm surface is a joy.

 

[eltub1]

I don't think golfers of most levels can complain about firm greens BUT there is a big difference between a poor hard green and a good firm green.

A poor hard surface is unacceptable, a fantastic true firm surface is a joy.

the greens are in prime condition running at above 10 on the s/m

 

[ScienceBoy]

the greens are in prime condition running at above 10 on the s/m

How can you complain about that? What do they think golf is? Everyone plays the same course and every course is different.

Rise to the challenge! Its one that is a true test!

 

[eltub1]

the greens are in prime condition running at above 10 on the s/m

How can you complain about that? What do they think golf is? Everyone plays the same course and every course is different.

Rise to the challenge! Its one that is a true test!

Exactly, its a harder test than just slamming a wedge into a soft green and seeing it spin back to the flag ... thats the easy option lol

 

[Ethan]

Firm and fast greens are great, but to have very firm greens, it needs to be a certain type of course with running areas. Penal rough or water hazards just off the green can become unfair on those courses.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I thought a couple of the greens at Blackmoor were tough to hold with a mid iron but it just meant you had to adopt how you played the shot. Providing the firm greens didn't make it farcical and every approach failed to stick then I can see how it can be a legitimate defence for a course. Personally I wouldn't want to play that type of course every day but would relish the challenge every now and then

 

[Evesdad]

I love our greens now! The course is also running fast due to the dry weather, you just have to adapt, it's easier to get closer to the green as shots roll out more even bad ones! But the greens arent holding much so a bump and run or a high soft landing shot required. I've had more success with the former!

 

[Imurg]

A lot depends on how the course is designed. If the greens are designed with a 4 iron approach in mind they have to be able to hold a ball played like that. I've played courses before where the "normal" approach shot to a hole is with a 4 or 5 iron and the greens are just rock hard, the ball just skips through. Only a wedge will hold them. That means you have to run the ball up. But if the course is designed in a way taht you have to pitch on the green to avoid front bunkers etc then you're stuffed. Links courses are often designed with the running approach shot in mind, many parkland courses are not.

 

[GB72]

A lot depends on how the course is designed. If the greens are designed with a 4 iron approach in mind they have to be able to hold a ball played like that. I've played courses before where the "normal" approach shot to a hole is with a 4 or 5 iron and the greens are just rock hard, the ball just skips through. Only a wedge will hold them. That means you have to run the ball up. But if the course is designed in a way taht you have to pitch on the green to avoid front bunkers etc then you're stuffed. Links courses are often designed with the running approach shot in mind, many parkland courses are not.

Good point this, the firmness of the greens need to fit the course and hole design. If the hole is a par 4 and most people are hitting a 4 or 5 iron in as a second shot then it is not fair to have rock solid green that the ball bounces through, especially if not designed so as you can play a shorter iron that will run on.

Then you have the question of consistancy. Obviously you want all the greens to run at the same speed and behave in the same way so if you have 2 or 3 holes that are not condusive to a firm green, does that mean that all of the greens need to softer or should those holes play slightly unfairly in order to allow firmer greens on the rest of the course?

 

[granters]

Our greens are very quick, and very difficult to hold with anything but a wedge. Even then there's no such thing as backspin- just check. I wouldn't have it any other way. They make me a better golfer as it's all about imaginitave shot making rather than firing at the green all the time.

Today for instance my brother and i had about 150 to go. He blasted a 9 iron and missed the green, i 3/4 punched a 6 iron 20 yards short and it ran out to 3 feet (and missed the putt!). But that's links golf for ya. Love it.