Builder/tradepeople advice

[vkurup]

<Guilty> I have not been true to Uncle Ed Balls's advice of taking a receipt from my Gardner (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...et-a-receipt-from-your-gardener-10047783.html) in the past. So too with some of the odd tradesmen who I have come and done bits & bobs. But these are small jobs & sums

Was speaking a colleague who is looking to do some building work and going to pay his builder in cash!! The builder is registered and certified and will give all the certificates etc. On the sum that he is spending, it will save a few quid. We are also looking to do some building, but I am not sure i can stay in a place where I am not sure who I should call if things go wrong?

Question: if you pay builders in cash, how do you contract for it? What if he does not do a good job or you need something fixed??

I am sitting on the fence on this one.

 

[Norrin Radd]

first off get a builder that comes reccomended by a friend,and then have a chat witrh the builder and see what he is open to.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

A couple of pointers how I run my own business.

I never ask for money upfront, if I'm supply&fitting on a job I will only ask for money once all materials are onsite or installed. If it's a 1st fix/2nd fix type of job I take around half of the agreed price once the 1st fix is completed then the rest once the job is completed and the customer is happy.

If there are any variations that need sorting I always agree a sum with the customer before I do it so both parties don't get shafted with more work and extra costs.

Depending on what work you're planning on having done, try and agree a payment plan of when he gets paid etc

 

[DCB]

Sounds like a recipe for disaster. If it is work that would require a warrant, then I'd certainly be looking at using professional help to make sure everything was above board, everything was properly detailed in a contract and that , if the job was big enough, retentions were detailed and agreed by both parties.

Cash in hand for 'proper' jobs is just asking for trouble.

 

[NWJocko]

A couple of pointers how I run my own business.

I never ask for money upfront, if I'm supply&fitting on a job I will only ask for money once all materials are onsite or installed. If it's a 1st fix/2nd fix type of job I take around half of the agreed price once the 1st fix is completed then the rest once the job is completed and the customer is happy.

If there are any variations that need sorting I always agree a sum with the customer before I do it so both parties don't get shafted with more work and extra costs.

Depending on what work you're planning on having done, try and agree a payment plan of when he gets paid etc

Can't believe I'm saying this but good advice from Stu

When we've had bigger jobs done agreeing it this way has worked well, often pay part in cash and part cheque/bank transfer aswell.

 

[vkurup]

Sounds like a recipe for disaster. If it is work that would require a warrant, then I'd certainly be looking at using professional help to make sure everything was above board, everything was properly detailed in a contract and that , if the job was big enough, retentions were detailed and agreed by both parties.

Cash in hand for 'proper' jobs is just asking for trouble.

I am in the same boat.. but..
1) While we havent decided on a builder yet, our builder comes recommended.. he did a couple of houses on my road and they are still standing.
2) I like what i hear from Stuart and think we need to consider a payment plan and add the bit of retention

While we have a good view on what we want and can write that into a contract, i am worried about the Mrs changing her mind as well as things that we find when we start laying the foundations.. both of which are the great 'unknown-unknowns'...

 

[AMcC]

If he is a registered and reputable builder and giving certificates on completion then I would recommend the following.

A basic written contract between the two of you outlining the extent of the works, even mentioning he will be paid in cash.

Arrange the payments after certain stages of the work have been completed, clearly stating this in your document and always retain a reasonable sum until the works have been approved and certificates issued / accepted by Building Control if relevant. This would be a large enough sum to make sure he is attentive enough beyond the end of the job and doesn't just disappear near the end, knowing he is only missing out on a bit of profit. In a proper contract 5%, I think, would be retained off each stage payment, with half of this being retained until practical completion and the other half 2.5% released " x " amount of weeks after practical completion. Most builders will run a mile from this idea but is the correct way of doing it in a small buildings contract. Be a bit cautious about paying too much if any monies up front.

I always advise clients to get some references from potential contractors and make sure they have done similar work on the house they refer !! Ask if you can contact the last build they had asking - did they turn up on time, did they finish on schedule, did they ask for more money half way through as they had missed something !!

It should be no different because you are paying in cash.

 

[AMcC]

Having read some of the replies since I started typing.#

I would also add, try not to change anything after the job has been agreed and priced.

If you do, get a duplicate book and detail the changes from the original job, what the builder is going to charge you and you both sign it and date it, you get a copy and he gets one.
At the end of the job you both gets your bits of paper out and tally up the extras.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

There will always be changes especially if you're renovating an older property because you don't know what's under the floors, behind cupboards walls etc.

Any decent builder/tradesman will always keep you informed of any changes and usually good reasons to why you're being charged extra if anything crops up.

 

[AMcC]

There will always be changes especially if you're renovating an older property because you don't know what's under the floors, behind cupboards walls etc.

Any decent builder/tradesman will always keep you informed of any changes and usually good reasons to why you're being charged extra if anything crops up.

Working with a builder who communicates well is a must. A weekly update and wander round the job is never a bad idea

 

[Tiger man]

Paying cash should make no difference to certification and guarantees whatsoever. You have paid for the job it's up to him to declare his earnings not you. I would ask him to take you to see some of his previous work so you get an idea of his standard of finish and see how his relationship with old customers is and if it all seems good go for it.
Like others have said get a clear price agreed in a written contract with a specification of the job and ask him to inform you of any extras along the way so you can agree to them and not have them mount up and shock you at the end. If there are any extras you can check them against the original specification he worked his price to and agree the added costs.

 

[Spartacus]

A cash payment is just the same as a cleared cheque payment. Why should the builder wait another week for his money after the work has been done?

Obtain a receipt for the cash payment upon presentation of said cash.

If the builder has offered you a 20% discount for secret cash then that's a whole different ball game.

 

[gregers]

seems like you are going to use him,
but i would still recommend you obtain at least 2 other quotes for the works you want carried out.
again ask to see some of there work,some sound advice within this thread take it on board.
make sure you with hold a retention for a short period so that anything that crops up after completion will make the contrctor
keen to carry out alterations/repairs,pay it all and they will sod off.

lots of info on this forum from some very knowledgeable peeps,

www.diynot.com

 

[Spartacus]

Bank transfer is the one.

 

[daymond]

Some good advice above. In addition I would recommend you buy the RICS form of contract for minor building works. There are others. A web search will find them.

 

[the smiling assassin]

Be aware of Your responsibilities as client under the new CDM2015 regs.

 

[Spartacus]

We often see programmes about cowboy builders but never anything about cowboy customers, of which there are plenty!

 

[Tiger man]

We often see programmes about cowboy builders but never anything about cowboy customers, of which there are plenty!

Very good point, I did an extension that cost around the 30k mark and am still owed over 8k in extras that were all agreed to and pointed out as the job was in progress. At the end the customer paid the original quote and ignored all the extras, left me in lots of trouble paying off their extras which were all for massively upgraded fittings in the kitchen and bathroom, not labour so I am massively out of pocket and ended up basically doing the work for free:sbox:

 

[Spartacus]

You have my sympathy.

 

[Spartacus]

It's like one in the balls for the labour but it's the one up the derriere for materials that hurts the most.