Brexit - The negotiations.

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Ethan said:
Its not an argument, but is becoming a circular discussion.

I am sure the result would not have been different. Aside from a few Eurosceptic Tory MPs, joining the then EEC was a no brainer which has brought a few headaches but mostly excellent economics, and since then Europe was not a big issue for the vast majority of Brits until they were told it should be by others with their own agendas.
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Would never have described Anthony Wedgwood Benn as a Eurosceptic Tory.
 
MetalMickie said:
Would never have described Anthony Wedgwood Benn as a Eurosceptic Tory.
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Indeed. There is a small faction of the left who think the EU is a capitalist plot, but all the political momentum for Brexit was driven by the Tory Eurosceptic wing and fears of votes drifting to Führage. The referendum was a sop to placate them.
 
Ethan said:
Indeed. There is a small faction of the left who think the EU is a capitalist plot, but all the political momentum for Brexit was driven by the Tory Eurosceptic wing and fears of votes drifting to Führage. The referendum was a sop to placate them.
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The Labour Party's strength of support for Remain in 2016 was weakened by Corbyn's personal Euroscepticism.

Couple that with the Tory leadership's complacency and perhaps the Leave result is not surprising.
 
Are we excited about a US trade deal and access to all the lovely sub standard food and the lowering of standards that it will bring.
Can chicken get any cheaper?
 
robinthehood said:
Are we excited about a US trade deal and access to all the lovely sub standard food and the lowering of standards that it will bring.
Can chicken get any cheaper?
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The US are our single biggest trading country and one that we trade with at a surplus. We already buy a lot from them and we will have the opportunity do so at lower prices. Have you spent any time in the US? I have fami,y there and visit often, I've also ran an office over there, the food has always been very good and I've never had problems with it, none of my Sons family are getting ill with food poisoning but I've had some very dodgy food in the UK and in Europe over the years. This is another remainer scare story.
 
Ethan said:
I am sure the result would not have been different. Aside from a few Eurosceptic Tory MPs, joining the then EEC was a no brainer which has brought a few headaches but mostly excellent economics, and since then Europe was not a big issue for the vast majority of Brits until they were told it should be by others with their own agendas.
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I can assure you having been there and seen the manifesto for joining, it would definitely have been a different outcome had we, the voter, known how the Common Market was going to evolve into the mess that it is now. All of the promotion for joining was based on tariff free agreements and easier trade amongst the members, I remember little else but for the benefits of trade being mentioned. There was no suggestion that poor ex communist countries would join, that it would be run by unelected bueracrats, that laws would be made outside of Parliament and we'd have to obey an ECJ, that there would be an EU army, an EU Chancellor who could override parliaments, an EU currency and free movement of people etc etc

Had we known then what we know now it's clear to me that we wouldn't have joined, given that what we know now has persuaded the majority to want to leave the EU
 
chrisd said:
I can assure you having been there and seen the manifesto for joining, it would definitely have been a different outcome had we, the voter, known how the Common Market was going to evolve into the mess that it is now. All of the promotion for joining was based on tariff free agreements and easier trade amongst the members, I remember little else but for the benefits of trade being mentioned. There was no suggestion that poor ex communist countries would join, that it would be run by unelected bueracrats, that laws would be made outside of Parliament and we'd have to obey an ECJ, that there would be an EU army, an EU Chancellor who could override parliaments, an EU currency and free movement of people etc etc

Had we known then what we know now it's clear to me that we wouldn't have joined, given that what we know now has persuaded the majority to want to leave the EU
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Ah, so you would have voted against had only you known it would lead to the ability to work and live anywhere in the EU, international car companies headquartering in the U.K., improved consumer laws, improved net security laws, the EMA being located here, better rights for workers and a strong flexible economy?

The line about unelected bureaucrats is somewhat weakened when Dominic Cummings is running the country and he gets his minion to appoint a load of unelected loyalists to the Lords. The U.K. Parliament has opposed very few EU regulations.

And there is no EU Army.

By the same token, presumably would not have voted for Brexit if they had known it would not lead to trade deals in an afternoon, countries queuing up to do them, the same benefits of being in while being out, and extra money for the NHS?
 
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Ethan said:
Ah, so you would have voted against had only you known it would lead to the ability to work and live anywhere in the EU, international car companies headquartering in the U.K., improved consumer laws, improved net security laws, the EMA being located here, better rights for workers and a strong flexible economy?

The line about unelected bureaucrats is somewhat weakened when Dominic Cummings is running the country and he gets his minion to appoint a load of unelected loyalists to the Lords. The U.K. Parliament has opposed very few EU regulations.

And there is no EU Army.

By the same token, presumably would not have voted for Brexit if they had known it would not lead to trade deals in an afternoon, countries queuing up to do them, the same benefits of being in while being out, and extra money for the NHS?
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No, I would have voted against for the reasons that the majority of voters did in 2016

Dominic Cummings does not run the country

The ECJ has ruled against the UK a high percentage of times

There will be a EU army in time, it's what they want

I voted with my heart and long term knowledge in order to free people from the clutches of the EU and one day you will realise it was for the best
 
chrisd said:
No, I would have voted against for the reasons that the majority of voters did in 2016

Dominic Cummings does not run the country

The ECJ has ruled against the UK a high percentage of times

There will be a EU army in time, it's what they want

I voted with my heart and long term knowledge in order to free people from the clutches of the EU and one day you will realise it was for the best
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In a world where an army is sadly necessary (although we often are the instigators), a larger army with multinational scope is clearly an advantage. That’s one of the most baffling things that people who voted for Brexit oppose.
 
Kellfire said:
In a world where an army is sadly necessary (although we often are the instigators), a larger army with multinational scope is clearly an advantage. That’s one of the most baffling things that people who voted for Brexit oppose.
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I dont see what's baffling about an army, with our troops, being run by the EU and consisting of soldiers from various countries who have rarely have taken part in conflicts around the world given that their leaders dont allow it. I think id rather we stick with NATO and the US
 
chrisd said:
I dont see what's baffling about an army, with our troops, being run by the EU and consisting of soldiers from various countries who have rarely have taken part in conflicts around the world given that their leaders dont allow it.
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So what you’re saying is that having lots of less blood and resource hungry nations able to influence the actions of our army so that we’d take part in less conflicts across the world is a bad thing?
 
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