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Brexit - The negotiations.

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chrisd said:
I believe that it will end satisfactorily. The EU cant afford to lose our trade as well as fishing rights etc and we would really want a tariff free agreement. When Barnier stops playing silly buggers, and the EU leader step in, as they will, I'm convinced a deal will quickly follow.
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i hope you are right Chris and i think there is a decent chance but as you say the silly games need to stop as the clock is ticking. The Beaurocrats in Brussels would be much more in favour of being dogmatic and happy to accept no deal, and maybe even Macron could be in this camp, but I hope the pragmatists in Germany, Holland etc stop it going down this route. Both sides should easily be able to claim a victory if common sense prevails
 
Barnier scathing today about UK approach to the negotiations and UK rowing back on agreements UK has signed up to in the withdrawal agreement. And very little, if any, progress. Well he would be scathing wouldn't he - he would say that. Playing games is M Barnier.

Just as well the EU needs us and our money more than we need the EU. Some might suggest that we don't actually want an agreement - not I. Anyway - who knows.

And no matter - Johnson will be heading out shortly to lead in a summit to sort things out and no doubt put Barnier and the EU in their place. All will be well.

Apparently.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Barnier scathing today about UK approach to the negotiations and UK rowing back on agreements UK has signed up to in the withdrawal agreement. And very little, if any, progress. Well he would be scathing wouldn't he - he would say that. Playing games is M Barnier.

Just as well the EU needs us and our money more than we need the EU. Some might suggest that we don't actually want an agreement - not I. Anyway - who knows.

And no matter - Johnson will be heading out shortly to lead in a summit to sort things out and no doubt put Barnier and the EU in their place. All will be well.

Apparently.
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BORING! :sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep:
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Barnier scathing today about UK approach to the negotiations and UK rowing back on agreements UK has signed up to in the withdrawal agreement. And very little, if any, progress. Well he would be scathing wouldn't he - he would say that. Playing games is M Barnier.

Just as well the EU needs us and our money more than we need the EU. Some might suggest that we don't actually want an agreement - not I. Anyway - who knows.

And no matter - Johnson will be heading out shortly to lead in a summit to sort things out and no doubt put Barnier and the EU in their place. All will be well.

Apparently.
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Wrong, Barnier was referring to the Political Declaration not the WDA. The PD is not binding.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Barnier scathing today about UK approach to the negotiations and UK rowing back on agreements UK has signed up to in the withdrawal agreement. And very little, if any, progress. Well he would be scathing wouldn't he - he would say that. Playing games is M Barnier.

Just as well the EU needs us and our money more than we need the EU. Some might suggest that we don't actually want an agreement - not I. Anyway - who knows.

And no matter - Johnson will be heading out shortly to lead in a summit to sort things out and no doubt put Barnier and the EU in their place. All will be well.

Apparently.
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pathetically predictable stuck-in-the-past pining for the EU - and adds nothing. Have you ever made a comment which gave some credit for the perfectly normal things the UK want out of trade deal in the post-EU world. And god forbid you would want us to actually get a decent deal and maybe have some faith in the UK position rather than always focusing on the negatives that are said by the EU and assuming that they are gospel and correct and that everything the UK is asking for is unreasonable.

Tell us, what position should the UK adopt in the negotiations and what sort of a fair deal do you think the UK should ak for
 
PNWokingham said:
pathetically predictable stuck-in-the-past pining for the EU - and adds nothing. Have you ever made a comment which gave some credit for the perfectly normal things the UK want out of trade deal in the post-EU world. And god forbid you would want us to actually get a decent deal and maybe have some faith in the UK position rather than always focusing on the negatives that are said by the EU and assuming that they are gospel and correct and that everything the UK is asking for is unreasonable.

Tell us, what position should the UK adopt in the negotiations and what sort of a fair deal do you think the UK should ak for
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Perhaps if he keeps ranting Dallas like we'll emerge from our daily showers to find it was all a dream and we're actually still in the EU
 
PNWokingham said:
pathetically predictable stuck-in-the-past pining for the EU - and adds nothing. Have you ever made a comment which gave some credit for the perfectly normal things the UK want out of trade deal in the post-EU world. And god forbid you would want us to actually get a decent deal and maybe have some faith in the UK position rather than always focusing on the negatives that are said by the EU and assuming that they are gospel and correct and that everything the UK is asking for is unreasonable.

Tell us, what position should the UK adopt in the negotiations and what sort of a fair deal do you think the UK should ak for
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Pining for the EU? - utter tosh - unless you have missed that the UK has actually left the EU.

I hear so much bleating that what the UK is requesting is reasonable and normal, nasty EU for not understanding how reasonable the UK request is. It might be from UK perspective, but if the EU are unwilling to accede to the request then it doesn't matter a jot how reasonable and normal the request might seem. I hope we get the very best free trade deal. But with the current bunch of utter charlatans led by Mr Empty Jacket Johnson in charge, I do not actually hold out much hope. I am pleased that you have loads.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Pining for the EU? - utter tosh - unless you have missed that the UK has actually left the EU.

I hear so much bleating that what the UK is requesting is reasonable and normal, nasty EU for not understanding how reasonable the UK request is. It might be from UK perspective, but if the EU are unwilling to accede to the request then it doesn't matter a jot how reasonable and normal the request might seem. I hope we get the very best free trade deal. But with the current bunch of utter charlatans led by Mr Empty Jacket Johnson in charge, I do not actually hold out much hope. I am pleased that you have loads.
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So if you clearly think the UK is asking for a totally unreasonable deal, do you think the EU are also asking have a fair proposal for the UK?
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Pining for the EU? - utter tosh - unless you have missed that the UK has actually left the EU.

I hear so much bleating that what the UK is requesting is reasonable and normal, nasty EU for not understanding how reasonable the UK request is. It might be from UK perspective, but if the EU are unwilling to accede to the request then it doesn't matter a jot how reasonable and normal the request might seem. I hope we get the very best free trade deal. But with the current bunch of utter charlatans led by Mr Empty Jacket Johnson in charge, I do not actually hold out much hope. I am pleased that you have loads.
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Is there any need for this 'Empty Jacket', you have used this type of childish insult in many forms now and it does nothing for your intelligence.
 
SocketRocket said:
Is there any need for this 'Empty Jacket', you have used this type of childish insult in many forms now and it does nothing for your intelligence.
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I disagree. It shows his intelligence for exactly what it is.... the smell of holier than thou sarcasm in recent posts is putrid. As someone said to a LibDem MP on his favourite LBC Radio, you need to leave the UK, you add nothing to it other than bile.
 
Hobbit said:
I disagree. It shows his intelligence for exactly what it is.... the smell of holier than thou sarcasm in recent posts is putrid. As someone said to a LibDem MP on his favourite LBC Radio, you need to leave the UK, you add nothing to it other than bile.
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His posting style was pretty much the same on the "distance measuring device" thread some years back so I guess it was inevitable that he would be worse on Brexit, Boris and all things political. I'm simply taking the view that he eventually bought a rangefinder (as far as I understand) and I know that one say we'll see a post acknowledging that he was wrong about Brexit and Boris and maybe even apologising for being rude about us Brexiteers. At least we have a choice whether to read his sarcasm and insults, just think how his work colleagues/golf partners/ family must suffer ??
 
I am just patiently waiting for the outcome ... no point falling into the tabloid miss direction. For me it is simple, Boris said it would be good for us ... give him the opportunity to deliver what he views as good for us and then discuss or sort yourself out a better option If you don’t think it is good.
 
PNWokingham said:
So if you clearly think the UK is asking for a totally unreasonable deal, do you think the EU are also asking have a fair proposal for the UK?
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Still not sure of your view of what the EU are asking for and how we should change our clearly unreasonable demands in order to get a deal?
 
Foxholer said:
Isn't it time you 'Three Amigos' stopped 'attacking the poster' as opposed to 'attacking the argument'?

Report the post, or put him on Ignore, but please stop me wasting my time reading the personal attack part of your posts!
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Only if you stop attacking me for attacking him ??
 
Foxholer said:
Deal! (y) We should be Brexit negotiators! :D
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It's not as simple as that, as the agreement is only the equivalent of the trade agreement there is nothing legally binding, and although I'm cutting my nose off to spite my face, I'm only going to do as agreed so long as the rest of the forum is happy to be tied to a level playing field too ?
 
Foxholer said:
From what I could read (it's a 'subscription required' item) it's simply more Telegragh Brexit-reinforcing propaganda. Just as tedious to read as items that want the Brexit vote rerun! Subservience to regulations is not restricted to those sourced from EU bureaucrats!
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it is not propaganda and the source is irrelevant - the issue of laws and subservience is key to the negotiations - and the fact that we are proposing tariffs if need be shows we are ready and serious for a deal. It is a well written piece around the discussions. Text below

here were good and honourable arguments for staying in the EU. There are no arguments – none – for extending the transition period.

Some former Remainers – including, to his credit, Keir Starmer – recognise the difference. Although they fought tooth and nail to overturn the referendum result, they grasp that keeping Britain in a long transition, with all the obligations of membership and none of the rights, is a different proposition.

But, of course, politics is a tribal business. The prolonged culture war that followed the referendum has conditioned many Europhiles to demand an extension, not because it would bring benefits, but they hate everything associated with Brexit. The Lib Dem, Green, SNP, Plaid and SDLP leaders have pleaded with the EU to drag things out.

The EU, naturally, has jumped at that suggestion. Michel Barnier floated it again on Friday. From his point of view, keeping Britain as a non-voting member is the best of all worlds. Brussels officials even proposed – as though making a generous concession – that Britain could be excluded from the EU budget during any extension, paying a lump sum instead.

In truth, Britain will never agree to a prolongation, for five good reasons.

First, every Conservative MP was elected on a manifesto that promised, “we will not extend the implementation period beyond December 2020”.

Second, that commitment was enshrined in statute

Third, the dynamic has shifted since the general election. Theresa May’s desire to remain close to the EU made her the demandeuse. But now it is the EU that wants closer alignment, while the UK simply wants a standard trade deal. A no-deal outcome is far closer to Britain’s preferred position than to the EU’s.

Fourth, British negotiators know that the EU’s position will not change with time. What Britain is asking for is a basic, off-the-peg free trade agreement, every element of which has some precedent in the EU’s existing accords with third countries. The EU will either agree to that or it won’t. If it doesn’t agree now, it won’t shift its ground later.

Fifth, the coronavirus closures have overtaken what would otherwise have been the chief costs to Britain of a no-deal outcome. We are no longer worried about queues at Dover. The government knows that the economic recovery will require shock therapy. There will be changes to our taxes, our regulations, our supply lines, our consumer habits. That is the moment to make changes to our trade policy, too.

My sense is that Michel Barnier knows all this. Hence is unwontedly testy language and his attempt to put the ball back into Britain’s court by saying, in effect, “If you want a close trade deal with us, you must pay for it”. This is an odd way to look at trade deals – as though they were bestowed from kindness rather than sought from self-interest.

But, rather than wheedling, the British negotiators, who know that the EU has a structural trade surplus with the UK, simply said: “Fine, then, if a close trade deal comes with strings attached, how about a looser trade deal? If you truly believe that we are somehow trying to get privileged access to your markets while enjoying a competitive advantage, go ahead and raise some tariffs.”

That offer seems to have annoyed Brussels negotiators even more. They don’t want Britain to be reasonable; they want it to be subservient. Throughout the process, their objective has been, not to maximise the prosperity of their citizens, but to retain a measure of suzerainty over a breakaway province. Given what we now see of their attitude, perhaps a deal was never on the cards.
 
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