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The world is a different place now compared to when capital punishment was abolished, maybe in this day and age it might be a deterrent for some people.....honestly I dont think we'll ever know, but knowing the biggest repercussion of all hangs over you if you do something abhorrent has (in my eyes) got to have some sort of effect on society.

If the death penalty was a successful deterrent it would never be required to be used right now all over the world - but it stil is used - around 1000 people were executed over the world last year in 23 countries - and that’s not including China . At the end of 2017 there were just under 25 thousand people on death row

So that’s death penalties across all differing cultures but still not stopping people committing hidious crimes - so why is it going to be any different in the UK

People like Hunter would still have done want he did , the Rigby killers would still have carried out their crimes
 
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If the death penalty was a successful deterrent it would never be required to be used right now all over the world - but it stil is used - around 1000 people were executed over the world last year in 23 countries - and that’s not including China . At the end of 2017 there were just under 25 thousand people on death row

So that’s death penalties across all differing cultures but still not stopping people committing hidious crimes - so why is it going to be any different in the UK

People like Hunter would still have done want he did , the Rigby killers would still have carried out their crimes
You’re guessing just like those advocating the death penalty.

How do you if those Countries with the death penalty wouldn’t have a murder rate twice as high without it?

I understand an argument based on moral and civilised arguments, but no one is saying the death penalty reduces murders to zero.

Figures mean nothing.
 

Don Barzini

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You’re guessing just like those advocating the death penalty.

How do you if those Countries with the death penalty wouldn’t have a murder rate twice as high without it?

I understand an argument based on moral and civilised arguments, but no one is saying the death penalty reduces murders to zero.

Figures mean nothing.

There's actually been a lot of studies on the subject of whether it's a deterrent or not. Looking at US states which formerly had the death penalty, they've looked into murder and crime rates both before and after abolition. The conclusion has always been that the murder rate stayed the same afterwards as it was before.

There's also been plenty of studies done on whether criminals think about the likely punishment for the act they're planning. They tend to conclude that a high percentage either perceive no risk of apprehension for their crime, or have a lack of knowledge or awareness of the likely punishment if they are caught.

Most of the top criminal psychologists agree that there isn't really an effective deterrent (death penalty included) to the worst types of criminals.

There's plenty of stuff out there on this subject if you are interested to read more.
 
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There's actually been a lot of studies on the subject of whether it's a deterrent or not. Looking at US states which formerly had the death penalty, they've looked into murder and crime rates both before and after abolition. The conclusion has always been that the murder rate stayed the same afterwards as it was before.

There's also been plenty of studies done on whether criminals think about the likely punishment for the act they're planning. They tend to conclude that a high percentage either perceive no risk of apprehension for their crime, or have a lack of knowledge or awareness of the likely punishment if they are caught.

Most of the top criminal psychologists agree that there isn't really an effective deterrent (death penalty included) to the worst types of criminals.

There's plenty of stuff out there on this subject if you are interested to read more.
I have read quiet a bit, unfortunately there is no conclusive proof and that’s why the arguments go back to how we perceive a modern society and the moral component.

I don’t mean to come as ignorant but I have no time for how USA do things or explain things, but that is tainted to their argument for gun ownership.

I don’t advocate free reign on the death penalty, but there are certain crimes I’d use it for, Child killers being No 1 on my list.
 

adam6177

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I think that's a point worth emphasising.... I'm not for a death penalty verdict for all murders. But I think there are special cases that it could be applied to.

The murder of 15 babies being one of them.
 

Kellfire

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“There’s no proof the death penalty isn’t a deterrent.”

“Actually they researched it and it isn’t.”

“No that isn’t the evidence I wanted you to find so therefore it’s inconclusive.”
 
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“There’s no proof the death penalty isn’t a deterrent.”

“Actually they researched it and it isn’t.”

“No that isn’t the evidence I wanted you to find so therefore it’s inconclusive.”
Plenty of studies also show the reoffending rate of released murderers.
I admitted the issue is with the states, are you saying that is the shining example we should be looking to follow?
The Phillipines are also saying the drug use and trade is less than its ever been since their zero tolerance policy and sending out the death squads, maybe we should accept their findings and follow suit.
 

gmc40

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Plenty of studies also show the reoffending rate of released murderers.
I admitted the issue is with the states, are you saying that is the shining example we should be looking to follow?
The Phillipines are also saying the drug use and trade is less than its ever been since their zero tolerance policy and sending out the death squads, maybe we should accept their findings and follow suit.

What's the reoffending rate of released murderers? Do you have a link to one of the studies you refer to? I'm struggling to find anything specific.

I know reoffending on the whole is high in the U.K. suggesting our rehabilitation programs aren't working.
 

gmc40

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Interesting article here on Norways approach. Seems to be working

http://uk.businessinsider.com/why-norways-prison-system-is-so-successful-2014-12
 
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What's the reoffending rate of released murderers? Do you have a link to one of the studies you refer to? I'm struggling to find anything specific.

I know reoffending on the whole is high in the U.K. suggesting our rehabilitation programs aren't working.
Type murderers reoffending statistics into google and a few come up, some from .gov.uk and some from different media sources, all articles vary in age.
 

gmc40

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Type murderers reoffending statistics into google and a few come up, some from .gov.uk and some from different media sources, all articles vary in age.

Just scanned a couple of articles and it appears the rate of reoffending is lower than for those imprisoned for other crimes. Makes sense given the longer sentences. Norway seems the way to go for me. Focus on rehabilitation rather than punishment. Ultimately if criminals do get out of prison, it makes for a better society if they have changed their ways. The revolving prison door system in the UK or US doesn't work.
 
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Just scanned a couple of articles and it appears the rate of reoffending is lower than for those imprisoned for other crimes. Makes sense given the longer sentences. Norway seems the way to go for me. Focus on rehabilitation rather than punishment. Ultimately if criminals do get out of prison, it makes for a better society if they have changed their ways. The revolving prison door system in the UK or US doesn't work.
The fact we let any murders out and risk even one reoffending is the problem for me, we seem to focus on the criminal rather than the victim.
 

gmc40

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The fact we let any murders out and risk even one reoffending is the problem for me, we seem to focus on the criminal rather than the victim.

No we, and the US, focus on punishment rather than rehabilitation hence the rates of reoffending.

Some crimes deserve longer sentences and other lesser crimes shouldn't get prison sentences at all. I listened to a good discussion on LBC on this topic a couple of weeks back. One of the callers was apparently an expert in this area and I think they stayed something like 70% of those imprisoned for less than a year go on to reoffend within a year of release. Locking them up with more serious criminals and treating them like animals won't help. Most of our prisons are grim contrary to what the tabloid press will have you believe.
 

Don Barzini

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The fact we let any murders out and risk even one reoffending is the problem for me, we seem to focus on the criminal rather than the victim.

If that's the problem for you, do you not think it would be preferable to look at handing out more whole life tarrifs rather than making the leap up to a death penalty as the solution?
 
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If that's the problem for you, do you not think it would be preferable to look at handing out more whole life tarrifs rather than making the leap up to a death penalty as the solution?
All murderers should be whole life or death penalty (for particular ones)
 
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The fact we let any murders out and risk even one reoffending is the problem for me, we seem to focus on the criminal rather than the victim.

What about all the potential first time murderers, should they be sentenced to death before committing the crime, just in case?

"sorry sir, but we feel you may be a potential killer one day, and rather than take the risk of you offending have decided to hang you now, rather than risking an innocent persons life"
 
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What about all the potential first time murderers, should they be sentenced to death before committing the crime, just in case?

"sorry sir, but we feel you may be a potential killer one day, and rather than take the risk of you offending have decided to hang you now, rather than risking an innocent persons life"
If you can identify them, I’ll give you an answer. :thup:
 
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