Boris the PM - a new beginning

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rudebhoy said:
Funnily enough, I get annoyed watching the BBC News as in my opinion, they are far too soft on the government. If they are on at the same time, I watch ITN who are a lot more questioning of the government.
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I agree...which is why we watch Ch4 news as being the most likely to challenge and ask the difficult questions.

Bit like why we don't get Government Ministers appearing on Newsnight, Today or CH4 News - whilst they will seemingly happily go on Nick Ferrari on LBC for interview. That said Ferrari will press...but he does seem to ease off when he senses the minister is getting in a real mess.
 
pauldj42 said:
Never said any Government does mate and I’m still of the opinion our present Government has got a lot right over the pandemic, but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be criticised if they get some wrong.
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...and criticised if they appear to be shirking their responsibilities or trying to shift the blame.

They have indeed done plenty right - so it shouldn't be the end of the world to just admit when they got something wrong; say sorry if it made things difficult or worrying for anyone - and not always try and pretend they had no choice.
 
chrisd said:
They are making decisions on an ever changing situation and are criticised whatever, I would guess any Government would defend their decision to the hilt up to the point where circumstances dictate a change , they simply cant be wishy washy when the announce a policy.

The A level situation was a nightmare to handle, and the changes that they were forced into were no more fair than the initial situation
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It wasn't the FACT that they reversed their decision! It was THE WAY/HOW they initially 'stood their ground', then reversed the decision! And that's been the case too often!
Had they stated 'at this point in time...' (a typical wordy political style for 'currently'!) '...we don't see any reason to ....' But No, that wasn't the how they announced their 'No Change' policy, before completely reversing that policy!

Btw. I agree re 'fairness' - even though I believe the algorithm was almost certainly correct - and (arguably) fair too! It was also totally predictable that it would downgrade results from State schools far more (if at all) than from 'Public' (actually Private) ones!

And, as politicians, they are in the business of being (arguably, if not altogether apparent) 'wishy-washy' when announcing policy! The words 'at this point in time' or 'currently' give them so much wiggle room for the obvious/inevitable reaction of those 'penalised' by their downgrading - certainly after everyone saw what happened in Scotland!
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
...and criticised if they appear to be shirking their responsibilities or trying to shift the blame.

They have indeed done plenty right - so it shouldn't be the end of the world to just admit when they got something wrong; say sorry if it made things difficult or worrying for anyone - and not always try and pretend they had no choice.
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Never heard any government admit to being wrong. The main reason that those with no political alliance have become more disillusioned with politicians IMO.
 
chrisd said:
I'd much rather a Government that changes with immediate needs than one that sticks its head in the sand and wont budge for fear of being called out for u turns ??
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while i agree ... Just asking.. dont the Trump supporters also use the same argument about his ways.... Wear a mask or not, feed them dettol or not,
... he is doing this because he is challenging norms and draining the swamp...

.. as i said, i agree, i rather have them change than be adamant. But the sheer number of U-turns is embarrassing. Even when the first position was already explained to them, they would be bone headed and go the other way. only to come back.
.. Then like Trump, we do have BoJo using words like 'rouge algorithm', 'letterboxes' to sweep things away..
 
Mudball said:
while i agree ... Just asking.. dont the Trump supporters also use the same argument about his ways.... Wear a mask or not, feed them dettol or not,
... he is doing this because he is challenging norms and draining the swamp...

.. as i said, i agree, i rather have them change than be adamant. But the sheer number of U-turns is embarrassing. Even when the first position was already explained to them, they would be bone headed and go the other way. only to come back.
.. Then like Trump, we do have BoJo using words like 'rouge algorithm', 'letterboxes' to sweep things away..
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There is one big difference for me, Boris is a real politician (even if you disagree with him) Trump is not a real politician.
 
chrisd said:
There is one big difference for me, Boris is a real politician (even if you disagree with him) Trump is not a real politician.
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I'd argue the definition of what is a 'real' politician, certainly in terms of competence and behaviors is changing rapidly before our eyes. There are many things that Boris (and others) do that, in the olden days, would have lead to them resigning or not being taken seriously. The way we judge competence is getting a lot more lax. And I'd argue, many are much more prepared to turn a blind eye and cut them a lot of slack (on both sides) as long as the politicians initially seem to be on 'our side'.

I agree that Trump is taking this to the extremes, but I hope that we as a nation have the common sense to not follow all the way down that path.
 
Hacker Khan said:
I'd argue the definition of what is a 'real' politician, certainly in terms of competence and behaviors is changing rapidly before our eyes. There are many things that Boris (and others) do that, in the olden days, would have lead to them resigning or not being taken seriously. The way we judge competence is getting a lot more lax. And I'd argue, many are much more prepared to turn a blind eye and cut them a lot of slack (on both sides) as long as the politicians initially seem to be on 'our side'.

I agree that Trump is taking this to the extremes, but I hope that we as a nation have the common sense to not follow all the way down that path.
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Say what you want, Boris was elected as an MP by his constituents, has held various positions in Government and been selected by his party to be Prime Minister - Trump is nowhere near the same level of political nouse and is only where he is because of his bank balance, he hasn't worked into the position. Boris is clearly a much more competent politician but obviously not your choice
 
chrisd said:
Say what you want, Boris was elected as an MP by his constituents, has held various positions in Government and been selected by his party to be Prime Minister - Trump is nowhere near the same level of political nouse and is only where he is because of his bank balance, he hasn't worked into the position. Boris is clearly a much more competent politician but obviously not your choice
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The bar could hardly be set any lower...:)
 
chrisd said:
Say what you want, Boris was elected as an MP by his constituents, has held various positions in Government and been selected by his party to be Prime Minister - Trump is nowhere near the same level of political nouse and is only where he is because of his bank balance, he hasn't worked into the position. Boris is clearly a much more competent politician but obviously not your choice
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Yet time and time again on here we’ve heard and seen examples of posters saying you could put a dog/donkey/carrot in an election with a certain coloured rosette on and it would be elected.
Personally believe the system is broken on both sides of the atlantic and holding one person up against the other says more about the electorate than the elected.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Well I'm glad you are proud to have as PM someone who seems happy to appear in front of cameras looking quite so dishevelled. I'm not. Nothing sanctimonious about it. Just a bit of respect for the position of Prime Minister.
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you really are pathetic - having a go at the dress of a guy who is on holiday, still clearly unwell after nearly dying of covid and you mock him for his dress sense and appearance - absolutely pathetic. You need to have a long look in the Christian mirror!
 
pauldj42 said:
Yet time and time again on here we’ve heard and seen examples of posters saying you could put a dog/donkey/carrot in an election with a certain coloured rosette on and it would be elected.
Personally believe the system is broken on both sides of the atlantic and holding one person up against the other says more about the electorate than the elected.
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We didnt vote for the Prime Minister but the Americans did for their President
 
rudebhoy said:
15 policy U-turns in 5 months, even Tory MPs are accusing him of making it up as he goes along.

Those 15 U-turns in full
August 25 — Masks in schools: Education secretary Gavin Williamson’s U-turn came a day after he said: ‘We are not suggesting face coverings be used in schools.’

Aug 21 — Evictions: The government resisted calls to extend a ban on evicting private tenants until three days before it expired. It was extended on August 21 for four weeks.

Aug 17 — A-level results: On August 13, Boris Johnson hailed this year’s A-level results. Mr Williamson vowed there would be ‘no U-turn’. On August 17, it was announced students would be given grades estimated by their teachers, rather than by an algorithm.

July 24 — Masks in shops: Face coverings were made compulsory in shops despite deputy chief medical officer Dr Jenny Harries saying in April they ‘don’t help’.

July 14 — Huawei: The PM ordered all technology by the Chinese firm Huawei to be stripped from Britain’s 5G network — six months after giving the go-ahead for its involvement.

June 18 — NHS tracing app: The app was announced on April 12 by health secretary Matt Hancock, who pledged it would be ‘crucial’. But on June 18, the project was abandoned, with Apple and Google taking over.

June 16 — School meals voucher scheme: Footballer Marcus Rashford played a key role in forcing a U-turn on the government’s decision not to extend the children’s food voucher scheme into the summer holidays.

June 9 — Primary school return: In May, the government said it wanted all primary pupils to have four weeks in school before the holiday. The plan was scrapped amid social distancing fears.

June 3 — Proxy voting: Parliament continued to meet during the epidemic, with MPs forced to turn up to cast their vote. After an outcry, proxy votes were allowed on June 3.

May 28 — Contact tracing: The ‘contain phase’, where all contacts of infected people were traced, was abandoned on March 13. Contact tracing was brought back on May 28.

May 21 — NHS surcharge for overseas health and care staff: Hours after the PM backed the fee, it was abolished for foreign health and care workers.

May 20 — NHS bereavement scheme: After criticism that support staff were excluded from a scheme granting families of health workers who die from Covid-19 indefinite leave, they were included.

April 15 — Care homes: On February 25, Public Health England said it was unlikely care home residents would become infected. On April 15, hospitals were asked to ensure patients discharged to care homes were tested.

April 5 — Herd immunity: In March, government advisers argued that the disease ‘needed’ to spread through the community. Chief scientific adviser Sir Patrick Vallance said the ‘key thing’ was to ‘build up some herd immunity’. On April 5, the health secretary insisted that herd immunity was ‘not our policy’.

March 23 — Lockdown: Countries across Europe went into lockdown but large public events, including the Cheltenham Festival, continued in the UK. Sir Patrick Vallance said mass gatherings ‘actually don’t make much difference’. The PM announced full lockdown on March 22, the day before it was brought in.


https://www.metro.news/i-am-concerned-we-just-keep-making-it-up-as-we-go-along/2126057/
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I’m surprised I haven’t cut my Tory party member card up with the rest of them. Utter embarrassment.
I didn’t vote for a party or a chap that panders to the media, Sturgeon, lobbyists and tears of the left.

Utter shambles.
 
chrisd said:
Say what you want, Boris was elected as an MP by his constituents, has held various positions in Government and been selected by his party to be Prime Minister - Trump is nowhere near the same level of political nouse and is only where he is because of his bank balance, he hasn't worked into the position. Boris is clearly a much more competent politician but obviously not your choice
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I would say he's clearly more of a better person in terms of character. Well most of the time. As for being a better 'politician' then it all depends on the criteria. As if Trump wins another 4 years then there is an argument he has succeeded as a politician in terms of getting in power and being able to forward their specific agenda. Which to be honest is what politicians mostly crave nowadays anyway.
 
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