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Boris the PM - a new beginning

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Old Skier said:
Be fair, the whole of the Labour front bench have been screaming for one in the last 6 months.
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That wasn’t the question.
Boris doesn’t want one because Labour do!
Why does he suddenly, and so desperately, want one?
 
JamesR said:
Why is Boris so desperate for an election?
He didn’t want one, then he does, and now he’s almost pleading with Corbyn to have one.
I doubt he wants one out of altruism!
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He has/had little choice when his own party members continued playing the games started under TM and they lost the referendum they thought they'd win.
 
In the end the bloke can't win. Spent the first couple of months being berated and having no mandate to be PM because he wasn't voted in by "the people " by members of the forum, now gives them what they want and their still not happy.

Let's face it, we all know it's all to do with the dark arts of politics and tactics, who's to say he really does want one :) and he's just saying it to show up Labour and the rest who have been demanding one.
 
I hardly think that being berated on the forum will have made him change his mind...and I feel if anyone is being shown up it’s him not labour’s front bench. They seem seem happy to have a GE when they want it, not when Boris wants it.
 
JamesR said:
I hardly think that being berated on the forum will have made him change his mind...and I feel if anyone is being shown up it’s him not labour’s front bench. They seem seem happy to have a GE when they want it, not when Boris wants it.
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Are you saying that Corbyn was lying 2 weeks ago when he said we need a GE. Well I never.
 
Old Skier said:
Are you saying that Corbyn was lying 2 weeks ago when he said we need a GE. Well I never.
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I don’t know that he’s now saying he doesn’t want one. But, like Johnson, he wants it on his team’s terms
 
Old Skier said:
In the end the bloke can't win. Spent the first couple of months being berated and having no mandate to be PM because he wasn't voted in by "the people " by members of the forum, now gives them what they want and their still not happy.

Let's face it, we all know it's all to do with the dark arts of politics and tactics, who's to say he really does want one :) and he's just saying it to show up Labour and the rest who have been demanding one.
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No subtle tactics ... close the house, try and push an election when negotiating should be happening.. hello no deal.
Who wants to inherit that .. it could be great it could be horrific and who ever is in power will always be remembered.
Too risky ..
 
Hobbit said:
That's an interesting question. Don't forget that the Tories don't have a majority now. The Queen may ask Corbyn to form a government.
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I think that there might also be a problem with the wording of the new law. It instructs "the Prime Minister" to ask the EU for an extension. If Boris resigns we don't have a PM to ask for the extension. Not sure how quickly another PM can be put in place.
 
ColchesterFC said:
I think that there might also be a problem with the wording of the new law. It instructs "the Prime Minister" to ask the EU for an extension. If Boris resigns we don't have a PM to ask for the extension. Not sure how quickly another PM can be put in place.
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Exactly.
Boris was, he says, negotiating a deal , saying he had a good bargaining chip of no deal in the background. Without it, he wouldn't get any concession from the EU.
Corbin , not naively but snidely, demands to know what negotiations have taken place, knowing that you do not reveal such things in public. Boris did not reveal anything. Then Corbin has the cheek to think he's scored a point.
Boris is faced with a vote by the House, scuppering his intentions , and promise to the nation, that he will come out by 31 October.
He anticipates rightly that he will lose the vote and when he does he knows the only way to fulfil his policy is to make a law overturning the one just being made by his opponents.
And the only way he can do that is to have a G E and have enough MPs behind him to pass it.
The first attempt to get the G E is scuppered by Corbin et al, because they know that too.
Boris could propose a bill for a G E which would need only a one vote majority.
However the opponents are now going to law to get Boris to ask for an extension , which he is vowing not to do.
He is in a corner, obviously, so, to my mind, all he can do is tell his party and others to back his bill, or he will resign and thus there is a chance for Corbin to be called to form a a Government.
Do they want to gamble that Corbin cannot, thus precipitating a G E, - or not?
I think Boris , being where he is, would gamble that he won't (and thus get his G E.)
If it were that, or be sent to Brussels against my will and lose all credibility with the nation, what would you do?
 
drdel said:
I think that's right since the Art 50 is in UK law (so would have to be cancelled) and the EU stated the that they would agree a short extension to the 31st - during that additional time nothing has materially changed. Whether the EU will want the UK's cash more than the future hassle and the Brexiteer MEPs in Brussels I'm not sure.
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I’d be surprised if they don’t take the cash.
 
Swinglowandslow said:
Exactly.
Boris was, he says, negotiating a deal , saying he had a good bargaining chip of no deal in the background. Without it, he wouldn't get any concession from the EU.
Corbin , not naively but snidely, demands to know what negotiations have taken place, knowing that you do not reveal such things in public. Boris did not reveal anything. Then Corbin has the cheek to think he's scored a point.
Boris is faced with a vote by the House, scuppering his intentions , and promise to the nation, that he will come out by 31 October.
He anticipates rightly that he will lose the vote and when he does he knows the only way to fulfil his policy is to make a law overturning the one just being made by his opponents.
And the only way he can do that is to have a G E and have enough MPs behind him to pass it.
The first attempt to get the G E is scuppered by Corbin et al, because they know that too.
Boris could propose a bill for a G E which would need only a one vote majority.
However the opponents are now going to law to get Boris to ask for an extension , which he is vowing not to do.
He is in a corner, obviously, so, to my mind, all he can do is tell his party and others to back his bill, or he will resign and thus there is a chance for Corbin to be called to form a a Government.
Do they want to gamble that Corbin cannot, thus precipitating a G E, - or not?
I think Boris , being where he is, would gamble that he won't (and thus get his G E.)
If it were that, or be sent to Brussels against my will and lose all credibility with the nation, what would you do?
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Boris is where Boris is, due to his own arrogance and incompetence.
The thought of a no deal is unpalatable to the majority and that includes leavers and remainers.
With respect to his negotiations, they are as poor as his strategy ... the bloke is a blustering buffoon, you need to put your money on another person. An extension would give you that opportunity.
With respect to an election you’re assuming that the Tories will get in with a majority, so did May, and she then became dependent on the DUP and Arlene made a load of wedge.
The likely outcome will be a Brexit party trying to make a government with either the Tories or Labour (yeah sounds highly unlikely but Farage is all ego).
Overall the mess will still be present. The arguments will continue, but Europe will still be laughing.

If we have a GE it should be primarily about the Brexit position - leave no deal / whatever or leave with a deal or remain. I don’t want a candidate that wants to leave but is part of a remain party or vice versa, I want clarity of position.
 
It’s worth remembering what the former editor of the Telegraph opined on Depfeffel:


“There is room for debate about whether he is a scoundrel or mere rogue, but not much about his moral bankruptcy, rooted in a contempt for truth. We can’t predict what a Johnson government will do, because its prospective leader has not got around to thinking about this. But his premiership will almost certainly reveal a contempt for rules, precedent, order and stability. Dignity still matters in public office, and Johnson will never have it.

Yet his graver vice is cowardice, reflected in a willingness to tell any audience, whatever he thinks most likely to please, heedless of the inevitability of its contradiction an hour later. Like many showy personalities, he is of weak character. Johnson would not recognise truth, whether about his private or political life, if confronted by it in an identity parade. Almost the only people who think Johnson a nice guy are those who do not know him. I have a hunch that Johnson will come to regret securing the prize for which he has struggled so long, because the experience of the premiership will lay bare his absolute unfitness for it.”

Max Hastings, 24th June 2019.
 
I see that Depfeffel will defy convention and precedent and stand a candidate against the speaker of the house.

Hope the lovely folk of Buckingham tell Boris to get mullered. They voted remain so one would hope so.
 
harpo_72 said:
Boris is where Boris is, due to his own arrogance and incompetence.
The thought of a no deal is unpalatable to the majority and that includes leavers and remainers.
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You say this like it is correct.

It seems the majority of leavers would take a no deal over a remain.

No one has a majority on anything unfortunately but every side likes to say they have a majority.

If anyone had a proper majority on anything it would all be over, they don't and it is not.

Even the public like bullshitting each other over Brexit, everyone is as bad as everyone else.
 
And so it appears that our PM is not coping too well with the pressure of being PM. But am I surprised? Or do I remember how Johnson reacted when put under pressure by Andrew Neil in his interview during the Tory Party Leadership election. Yes I do. By getting petulantly and childishly aggressive and pointing of finger as he struggled...to know what Para 5(c0 of Gatt 24 was about.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-po...il-tests-boris-johnson-s-knowledge-of-gatt-24

And yet - it seems to make not it jot of difference as he continues in the same vein (worse in fact as his arrogance and contempt of parliament grows) and a large part of 33% of the electorate must have their head buried in the sand - not hearing or seeing the words and actions of our Prime Minister - or hearing and just choosing to ignore them.

What was it that Trump said about HIS 33% - his Loyal People?


And so it seems with Johnson and breaking the law.

Truly desperate times

If there is to be any chance of reconciliation in this country the first step has to be that Johnson goes - and he takes with him his Wormtongue.

Where each 'side' sees only Them being Wrong - and Us being Right - we have to have honestly and realisation that there actually needs to be just one Us - and that requires us all to appreciate that in the other's Wrong there is Right - whether we like it or not.

And we (myself included) need to start recognising and accepting that; we need a leader to tell us that - and that leader cannot be one such as Johnson as he has too much skin in his 31/10 exit game. For without it there can be little or no reconciliation - and my God we need reconciliation or this country - to get back to a position of Us all recognising and accepting the right and wrong in both sides. Getting rid of Them and Us - there can only be one Us - and that is all of us.
 
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