• We'd like to take this opportunity to wish you a Happy Holidays and a very Merry Christmas from all at Golf Monthly. Thank you for sharing your 2025 with us!

Boris the PM - a new beginning

Status
Not open for further replies.
Wolf said:
Oh dear... Perhaps you should look deeper into the facts before posting things like this as much as Farage is a tool. He is not the founder of UKIP.. Alan Sked (born 22 August 1947, in Cathcart Scotland) is a British academic and politician. He is Professor Emeritus of International History at the London School of Economics, founded the party now known as the UK Independence Party and has stood as a candidate in several parliamentary elections.

Britain First is a British fascist political organisation formed in 2011 by former members of the British National Party (BNP). A part of the far-right, the group was founded by Jim Dowson, an anti-abortion and far-right campaigner, who originates from Lanarkshire, Scotland.
Click to expand...


Close enough:ROFLMAO:
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
...the new beginning indeed as we are led, now charging it seems, towards the cliff-edge of a No Deal Brexit by someone who likes to portray himself and be seen by others as a present day Churchill. And he can do so through one characteristic of the privately educated - the ability to portray themselves with confidence and self-belief as intelligent and worthy of being followed - but it's an act - a game - played by those I read described as Bluffocrats.

And on Johnson the Bluffocrat PM I reflect on my grandfather's view of Churchill - his view was not of the 'heroic figure and leader' who provided a focus with words of encouragement and fighting spirit during WWII. No - my grandfather had no time for Churchill and saw Churchill as the self-serving reckless aristocratic figure that he was, the person who was the prime advocate of the action that led to the catastrophe that was Gallipoli - a catastrophe that my grandfather found himself in the middle of being in the BEF sent out by Churchill. And my grandfather never forgave Churchill for that - no matter what 'leadership' he might have shown during WWII. What set my grandfather's view of Churchill was the recklessness in the face of the terrible risk that Churchill knew that Gallpoli and the Dardanelles presented.

So today we have BJ - WC incarnate in who we have faith - the acolytes proclaim. And we look to the words of Boris deP Johnson from November 2016 for guidance...

"In the words of our great prime minister... I understood that Brexit means Brexit and we are going to make a Titanic success of it."

And yet - his unmeant but so apt analogy is coming to pass. His acolytes know and indeed tell us how difficult it will be for some as BJ sets a course and has UK steaming towards the iceberg.

“The price to be paid in taking Gallipoli would no doubt be heavy,” Churchill wrote, “but there would be no more war with Turkey. A good army of 50,000 and sea-power—that is the end of the Turkish menace.”

And so it came to pass - slaughter, failure and no end to the Turkish menace.

The lessons of history we are encouraged to learn from - but today very many in the country of ours seem blind to history and our leaders very own Gallipoli's and Dardanelles...no - they are happy to follow the Bluffocrat.
Click to expand...

As for the comments on Churchill, he was marmite. I seem to remember he was voted greatest Briton ever in a Beeb poll about 20 years ago. If you read his biography, as I did many years ago, you will be surprised at all the good things he did, e.g. bringing in the minimum wage way before WW1 and imploring various countries in the world to support the UK in ending the Bengal famine in '43, for which bizarrely he got the blame for - there's a long, long list of good.

Gallipoli was a failure, and as one of the proposers Churchill took the brickbats for it. I suggest you read up on it before to apply too much of the blame to Churchill. Have a look at the operational planning phase. The first battle of the Somme saw 60,000 lost in one day, and 1.2 million overall. Gallipoli saw 250,000 in 8 months. A far lower attrition rate than on the western front. Perhaps you should also read the conclusion of the govt report on Gallipoli, which found Hamilton the main reason behind its failure. Churchill resigned over it, and went and commanded a battalion on the Western Front. He was called back to Parliament, and as a minister, before that war ended. Get the facts rather than some tales from your grandfather's knee. I respect his service but not his opinion.

Your comments on Boris; thought you were all in favour of the No Deal, and him leading the UK to it.

Back to your old ways... so flippin' boring. More repeats than The Sound of Music and The Great Escape on the Beeb.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
...the new beginning indeed as we are led, now charging it seems, towards the cliff-edge of a No Deal Brexit by someone who likes to portray himself and be seen by others as a present day Churchill. And he can do so through one characteristic of the privately educated - the ability to portray themselves with confidence and self-belief as intelligent and worthy of being followed - but it's an act - a game - played by those I read described as Bluffocrats.

And on Johnson the Bluffocrat PM I reflect on my grandfather's view of Churchill - his view was not of the 'heroic figure and leader' who provided a focus with words of encouragement and fighting spirit during WWII. No - my grandfather had no time for Churchill and saw Churchill as the self-serving reckless aristocratic figure that he was, the person who was the prime advocate of the action that led to the catastrophe that was Gallipoli - a catastrophe that my grandfather found himself in the middle of being in the BEF sent out by Churchill. And my grandfather never forgave Churchill for that - no matter what 'leadership' he might have shown during WWII. What set my grandfather's view of Churchill was the recklessness in the face of the terrible risk that Churchill knew that Gallpoli and the Dardanelles presented.

So today we have BJ - WC incarnate in who we have faith - the acolytes proclaim. And we look to the words of Boris deP Johnson from November 2016 for guidance...

"In the words of our great prime minister... I understood that Brexit means Brexit and we are going to make a Titanic success of it."

And yet - his unmeant but so apt analogy is coming to pass. His acolytes know and indeed tell us how difficult it will be for some as BJ sets a course and has UK steaming towards the iceberg.

“The price to be paid in taking Gallipoli would no doubt be heavy,” Churchill wrote, “but there would be no more war with Turkey. A good army of 50,000 and sea-power—that is the end of the Turkish menace.”

And so it came to pass - slaughter, failure and no end to the Turkish menace.

The lessons of history we are encouraged to learn from - but today very many in the country of ours seem blind to history and our leaders very own Gallipoli's and Dardanelles...no - they are happy to follow the Bluffocrat.
Click to expand...
What a load of drivel..

Going on about Gallipoli and pointing out Churchills failings as a military commander. Yes Gallipoli was horrendous and many lives lost as there are in all wars, Commanders have to make decisions that ultimately make them unpopular and means a large loss of lives. But he wasn't the only person leading that part of the war as Hobbit points out. Why not point out the failings of other military men that commanded during the conflict where more lives were lost or does that not suit your stance.Perhaps your grandad would have preferred the cabinet voted in Halifax during the 2nd World War who wanted peace talks with Hitler brokered by Musolini where would the nation have been then. Its easy to point out a military commanders failings when you have never been in their position and are only hearing it from a one sided bias.. Churchill had his flaws but leading a country to victory at a time when we could have been invaded kind of outweighs things a little, especially as he knew from the start he wasn't liked but ended up doing great things ultimately with the backing of the King, cabinet and the nation🙄

Respect your grandad for his service but to give out your opinion of a man as a military fact when you've never walked those paths and only have 2nd hand tales is ridiculous.

As for Boris we all know you don't like him you insult him more than enough, your post really has added nothing to the debate
 
Last edited:
Wolf said:
What a load of drivel..

Going on about Gallipoli and pointing out Churchills failings as a military commander. Yes Gallipoli was horrendous and many lives lost as there are in all wars, Commanders have to make decisions that ultimately make them unpopular and means a large loss of lives. But he wasn't the only person leading that part of the war as Hobbit points out. Why not point out the failings of other military men that commanded during the conflict where more lives were lost or does that not suit your stance.Perhaps your grandad would have preferred the cabinet voted in Halifax during the 2nd World War who wanted peace talks with Hitler brokered by Musolini where would the nation have been then. Its easy to point out a military commanders failings when you have never been in their position and are only hearing it from a one sided bias.. Churchill had his flaws but leading a country to victory at a time when we could have been invaded kind of outweighs things a little, especially as he knew from the start he wasn't liked but ended up doing great things ultimately with the backing of the King, cabinet and the nation🙄

Respect your grandad for his service but to give out your opinion of a man as a military fact when you've never walked those paths and only have 2nd hand tales is ridiculous.

As for Boris we all know you don't like him you insult him more than enough, your post really has added nothing to the debate
Click to expand...

An excellent contribution
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
An excellent contribution
Click to expand...
Brilliant SILH focus on the one sentence and not on the response, how many times have you posted something similar to that line.. Pot and Kettle come to mind in this instance. As for the post it was in response to the actual drivel you wrote that initially had no contribution to thread other than to massage your own dislike of Boris and frankly was self serving and had no bearing on anything. 🙄
 
e
Hobbit said:
As for the comments on Churchill, he was marmite. I seem to remember he was voted greatest Briton ever in a Beeb poll about 20 years ago. If you read his biography, as I did many years ago, you will be surprised at all the good things he did, e.g. bringing in the minimum wage way before WW1 and imploring various countries in the world to support the UK in ending the Bengal famine in '43, for which bizarrely he got the blame for - there's a long, long list of good.

Gallipoli was a failure, and as one of the proposers Churchill took the brickbats for it. I suggest you read up on it before to apply too much of the blame to Churchill. Have a look at the operational planning phase. The first battle of the Somme saw 60,000 lost in one day, and 1.2 million overall. Gallipoli saw 250,000 in 8 months. A far lower attrition rate than on the western front. Perhaps you should also read the conclusion of the govt report on Gallipoli, which found Hamilton the main reason behind its failure. Churchill resigned over it, and went and commanded a battalion on the Western Front. He was called back to Parliament, and as a minister, before that war ended. Get the facts rather than some tales from your grandfather's knee. I respect his service but not his opinion.

Your comments on Boris; thought you were all in favour of the No Deal, and him leading the UK to it.

Back to your old ways... so flippin' boring. More repeats than The Sound of Music and The Great Escape on the Beeb.
Click to expand...


Every coin as 2 sides (or authors).. Churchill's reluctance to provide aid for the bengal famine is well documented along with some of nasty scribbling about Gandhi on the memo. History is always written by the victor and his viewpoint. If you believe that the Raj/Empire was without its blemishes - then you would be fooling yoursefl.

PS: I am not comparing Boris to Churchill - though he seems to have started that way. I was only raising a point re the famine history. Back to the post, maybe the country needs a Trump/Churchil/Boris type character at this point..
 
Mudball said:
e


Every coin as 2 sides (or authors).. Churchill's reluctance to provide aid for the bengal famine is well documented along with some of nasty scribbling about Gandhi on the memo. History is always written by the victor and his viewpoint. If you believe that the Raj/Empire was without its blemishes - then you would be fooling yoursefl.

PS: I am not comparing Boris to Churchill - though he seems to have started that way. I was only raising a point re the famine history. Back to the post, maybe the country needs a Trump/Churchil/Boris type character at this point..
Click to expand...

Needs a bloody miracle. I have high hopes for Jo Swinson. Hopefully a hung Parliament with the LibDems holding sway.
 
spongebob59 said:
I don't remember her standing up much when she was in the cabinet of the coalition g ov.
Click to expand...

She was never a member of the cabinet. Not all ministers are cabinet members and I'm pretty sure being Nick Clegg's PPS or being Under Secretary of State for Employment Relations and Postal Affairs never got her a seat round the cabinet table...
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Since when did intellect matter...spout any old tripe and if you are the right person you'll be believed by those on your side.
Click to expand...
Indeed! Though it's probably always been that way!

And, FWIW, not just in Politics imo. Though the style/quality of communication certainly counts too!
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
And on what grounds do you pass that judgement?

Besides - since when did intellect matter...these days you can spout any old tripe and if you are the right person you'll be believed by those on your side.
Click to expand...

By that revolutionary method of listening to her speak, answer questions and her writings. Very little depth to her comments and little or no 'presence' simply plays at domestics politics. Can you honestly see her as a UK PM at an international forum e.g G20 meeting, NATO etc?
 
drdel said:
By that revolutionary method of listening to her speak, answer questions and her writings. Very little depth to her comments and little or no 'presence' simply plays at domestics politics. Can you honestly see her as a UK PM at an international forum e.g G20 meeting, NATO etc?
Click to expand...

I fear you may not have been concentrating on what's happening with world leaders nowadays. Donald Trump is leader of the free world, all bets are off.
 
Hobbit said:
Needs a bloody miracle. I have high hopes for Jo Swinson. Hopefully a hung Parliament with the LibDems holding sway.
Click to expand...

Just check her voting record..she supported Mays austerity government more often than Johnson.
She does not rule out the LD's going into government with the Tories again ...…......hmmm that went sooooooo well last time.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top