Ball in play

[Green Bay Hacker]

A situation occurred in one of the groups in todays medal and they weren't sure what the answer was. A player's tee shot ended up pretty close to a tree, his second shot then hit the tree and appeared to go OOB on to an adjacent fairway. A second ball was then put into play. The player went and picked up the stray ball from the other fairway and found it wasn't his.

No problem at this point as he still thought the original ball was OOB but as he walked towards his second ball he found the original ball still in bounds. He thought his luck was in and proceeded to play and hole out with the original ball. I don't know if he added any shots/penalties to the score for the hole but my view is that he should be DQ'd for playing the wrong ball and not correcting it.

He did not call the second ball a provisional as he believed he could see the original OOB and therefore the second ball became the ball in play. Is that correct?

 

[HawkeyeMS]

If he didn't call it a provisional then I believe you are right.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

if he didn't declare the dropped ball to be a provisional then it was in play

If he didn't continue with the second ball he should be DQ'd

 

[Green Bay Hacker]

If he didn't call it a provisional then I believe you are right.

if he didn't declare the dropped ball to be a provisional then it was in play

If he didn't continue with the second ball he should be DQ'd

Thanks for confirming that.

 

[Colin L]

If I have got the situation right, he played a wrong ball with his second shot. When he played another ball because he thought the second shot went out of bounds, that ball was put into play as a continuation of play with the wrong ball and does not count in his score. He found his correct ball and continued to hole out with it, as Rule 15--3b requires. He incurs 2 penalty strokes for the wrong ball.

 

[Marc Cools]

If I have got the situation right, he played a wrong ball with his second shot. When he played another ball because he thought the second shot went out of bounds, that ball was put into play as a continuation of play with the wrong ball and does not count in his score. He found his correct ball and continued to hole out with it, as Rule 15--3b requires. He incurs 2 penalty strokes for the wrong ball.

I think it is DQ.
He holed out with the wrong ball without correcting.
The original ball was no longer in play when he "played a second ball" (not provisional as I understand it)

 

[HawkeyeMS]

If I have got the situation right, he played a wrong ball with his second shot. When he played another ball because he thought the second shot went out of bounds, that ball was put into play as a continuation of play with the wrong ball and does not count in his score. He found his correct ball and continued to hole out with it, as Rule 15--3b requires. He incurs 2 penalty strokes for the wrong ball.

Isn't rule 27-2 more applicable here?

If a ball may be lost outside a water hazard or may be out of bounds, to save time the player may play another ball provisionally in accordance with Rule 27-1. The player must:

(i) announce to his opponent in match play or his marker or a fellow-competitor in stroke play that he intends to play a provisional ball; and

(ii) play the provisional ball before he or his partner goes forward to search for the original ball.

If a player fails to meet the above requirements prior to playing another ball, that ball is not a provisional ball and becomes the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1); the original ball is lost.

The player in this case believed his ball OOB and didn't declare his replacement as a provisional, which according to 27-2 makes it the ball in play?

 

[Colin L]

When he played a wrong ball and because he thought he had gone out of bounds put another ball into play, the ball was played as a continuation of play with the wrong ball. He is still required to hole out with the correct ball once the mistake has been realised - which he did. The stroke with the wrong ball and stroke and distance penalty for the substituted ball do not count. He only incurs 2 penalty strokes for playing the wrong ball. See Decision 15/11:

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-15,d15-11

 

[HawkeyeMS]

When he played a wrong ball and because he thought he had gone out of bounds put another ball into play, the ball was played as a continuation of play with the wrong ball. He is still required to play the correct ball once the mistake has been realised - which he did. The stroke with the wrong ball and stroke and distance penalty for the substituted ball do not count. He only incurs 2 penalty strokes for playing the wrong ball.

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-15,d15-11

Maybe I misunderstood the OP, I thought he meant that the ball he played for his second was his ball but didn't go OOB as he thought? You're interpretation is that the ball he hit wasn't actually his but did go OOB. My confusion is that the OP said the "2nd" shot appeared to go OOB, which made me think that it actually didn't

 

[Colin L]

I've read the OP's description several times and struggle with it each time!

I have been reading it that his first shot ended up, he thought, near a tree. He played a ball near the tree in the belief it was his, and bounced it off the tree on to an adjacent fairway, OOB as he thought. When he picked up this ball from the other fairway he discovered it wasn't his original ball. He had played a wrong ball with his second shot. That means any play with the wrong ball including the substituted ball doesn't count and he must find and play the correct ball. Luckily he chanced on his original ball and carried on with it which happened to be the right thing to do although I doubt if he knew that!

I think I need a) a return of the Green Bay Hacker to clarify what happened and b) a wee lie down.

 

[Green Bay Hacker]

If I have got the situation right, he played a wrong ball with his second shot. When he played another ball because he thought the second shot went out of bounds, that ball was put into play as a continuation of play with the wrong ball and does not count in his score. He found his correct ball and continued to hole out with it, as Rule 15--3b requires. He incurs 2 penalty strokes for the wrong ball.

His second shot was playing the original ball that he put into play off the tee. That shot then hit the tree and he (and presumably the others players in the group) thought it had gone OOB. He therefore put another ball into play (without calling it a provisional ball) before he found the original ball. He then played the original ball (third shot excluding any penalties he may have deemed applicable) and holed out with it.

 

[Colin L]

His second shot was playing the original ball that he put into play off the tee. That shot then hit the tree and he (and presumably the others players in the group) thought it had gone OOB. He therefore put another ball into play (without calling it a provisional ball) before he found the original ball. He then played the original ball (third shot excluding any penalties he may have deemed applicable) and holed out with it.

So this bit was not, after all, about playing a wrong ball?

His second shot then hit the tree and appeared to go OOB on to an adjacent fairway....... the player went and picked up the stray ball from the other fairway and found it wasn't his.

Night, night. I can't cope with any more.

 

[Green Bay Hacker]

So this bit was not, after all, about playing a wrong ball?

His second shot then hit the tree and appeared to go OOB on to an adjacent fairway....... the player went and picked up the stray ball from the other fairway and found it wasn't his.

Night, night. I can't cope with any more.

Well i'm totally confused now when I thought I had it pretty clear. The 'stray ball' maybe confusing matters so just ignore that ball.

Let's say for simplification purposes that after his second shot on the hole he just assumed it went OOB and put another ball into play. That second ball landed just short of the green. On his way to play that ball he found his original (in play) and decided to hole out with the original ball.

My view was that he should be DQ'd as he did not call the second ball a provisional and therefore that ball then became the ball in play.

Hope that clears it up. If not I better go to bed as well.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Well i'm totally confused now when I thought I had it pretty clear. The 'stray ball' maybe confusing matters so just ignore that ball.

Let's say for simplification purposes that after his second shot on the hole he just assumed it went OOB and put another ball into play. That second ball landed just short of the green. On his way to play that ball he found his original (in play) and decided to hole out with the original ball.

My view was that he should be DQ'd as he did not call the second ball a provisional and therefore that ball then became the ball in play.

Hope that clears it up. If not I better go to bed as well.

If his second shot was with his original ball, then proceeding as he did is a DQ

 

[Colin L]

If his second shot was with his original ball, then proceeding as he did is a DQ

Exactly. It's easier when you delete that bit about finding the second ball on the other fairway and it wasn't his.

 

[backwoodsman]

Ok... if l understand correctly.

a) shot 1 lands by a tree
b) shot 2 (original ball) hits tree and believed to go OOB (on an adjacent fairway?)
c) a second ball dropped by tree and played to near the green. Ball was not declared a provisional.
d) ball on adjacent fairway picked up and found not to be original ball.
e) by chance, original ball found in bounds. This ball played to holing out.
f) not stated, but presumably the second ball dropped and played at line (c) above was either picked up or abandoned?

In which case, the second ball dropped at line (c) became the ball in play - because it wasn't declared a provisional. Therefore the original ball found & played at line (e) is now a wrong ball. Player holed out with this ball and did not correct the mistake so should be disqualified - rule 15/3b.

Ball picked up at line (d) is just a stray ball. And second ball picked up or abandoned at line (f) (if indeed it was) becomes irrelevant.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Exactly. It's easier when you delete that bit about finding the second ball on the other fairway and it wasn't his.

Indeed, we got there in the end

 

[Green Bay Hacker]

Thanks. Results on HDID and player not DQ'd (yet). Signed for a six on that hole (guess he applied a 2 shot penalty) and put score into computer. Luckily he had a poor score but should still be DQ'd.

 

[duncan mackie]

Thanks. Results on HDID and player not DQ'd (yet). Signed for a six on that hole (guess he applied a 2 shot penalty) and put score into computer. Luckily he had a poor score but should still be DQ'd.

There is no basis for a DQ now that the competition has been closed unless the player knew he was subject to disqualification for playing a wrong ball etc etc See 34-1b