Are these run offs fair ?

[CrapHacker]

Yesterday saw Clarke ruin his game on the 3rd after playing his second shot to within a few feet of the green. The ball then took the slope and finished off in the water.

We've all seen this many times at the 12th at the Masters over the years, and we've seen a shot that is almost brilliant turn into a card wrecker.

My question :

Is it fair to punish a decent shot so punitively ?

IMO there should be a couple of thicknesses of rough on the way down to the water so that a shot that is just rolling will hold up before it reaches the hazard. Make the rough semi thick so the slow tricklers don't get punished too much, and make the last few feet dead thick to make life tricky for those who find their way into it. But the water hazard should be there to punish a wayward shot, not just an unlucky one.

Golf's tough enough without making some shots almost impossible.

 

[slugger]

I agree, kind of... there was also another hole, was it the 10th? where the pin was placed very very close to a catchment area. Shots about 2ft to the right of the pin were sucked into pretty regularly.

I'm all for tough greens and tough placements, but a lot of potentially great shots were destroyed at loch lomond by unfair pin placement.

On the other hand, it's risk or reward and the pros should be good enough to see this and play left of the pin.

 

[Ken_A]

Yes - you need to play good and smart - it rewards a great shot - but anything less and you know you should not have been so greedy - all in I think they are totally necessary.

 

[freddielong]

Clarke knew were the slope was he took the risk and paid the pice

 

[Scott1505]

At the end of the day he knew that if he landed there he would end up in the drink. He din't have to go for that shot and even once he was in there he didn't have to play out of the water and could have easy made par.

 

[Ken_A]

I'm all for tough greens and tough placements, but a lot of potentially great shots were destroyed at loch lomond by unfair pin placement.

Its not unfair - they know where they are and have green maps - so they choose to go for it - any mistakes are simply penalised - simples.

I think it makes for great golf, when the players are nervous then it really puts them under pressure, then if they pull the shot off then they deserve the birdies.

 

[Redwood]

You should have seen some of the balls running off the green in the women's US open at Oakmont. I think they said they were running something like 14 or 15 on the stimp!!!

 

[viscount17]

pin placement can hardly be unfair to the pros. they have the pin sheet with exact details of its location, not just zone A, zone B etc.
they have a caddy who has been around and checked and measured everything.
they have had practice rounds.
anyway, I for one, want to see the pros taking on the toughies, not watch them romping round with hats full of birdies.

but for you or me, turning up for a one off round, armed with GPS and, usually, a pretty feeble strokesaver, then it is a little unfair. but do you only want the easy options?

 

[RGDave]

My question :
Is it fair to punish a decent shot so punitively ?

I think it is. I'm currently watching the last round (which I recorded as I was playing).
Risk/reward should be the name of the game for the pros.
I'm a little surprised both Hedblom and Darren both fell for it. There appeared to be a dropping area short of the lake and you'd fancy your chances of taking 3 shots (worst case) from there.
From the watery lie on the bank, getting down in 2 was 1/1000 so it comes down to not wanting to take the penalty.

We actually has a similar moment yesterday. My partner was in a hazard 40 yards short and he wanted to have a go at playing out of the hazard in the hope of getting down in two. I advised him that was never going to happen. He dropped, played 4 and holed from 12 foot.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Yes - it's all about risk & reward.
Play safe to the other side of the green for a safe par.
Or, attack the pin to get birdie or possibly worse.
It's your choice.
Or if you aim away from the danger and still end up in it, in which case you deserve punishment for such a bad shot.

 

[Ken_A]

You should have seen some of the balls running off the green in the women's US open at Oakmont. I think they said they were running something like 14 or 15 on the stimp!!!

Fap me - how impossible must they have been??? Stupidness.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

The run off didn't ruin his game, going at the pin knowing the slope was there and then trying to play out of the water did.

The 3rd is a par5, no need to fire at the pin or even go for the green. If he had to go for the green then he should have gone for the centre and 2 putted. Even after going into the water he could have taken a drop, hit his 4th to the centre of the green and had a par putt but at worst 2 putted for bogey.

He got greedy and paid the price, simple.

 

[DingleBerry]

I agree with freddielong!! He know the risks and still went for the flag!! That close in final round surely you aim for middle of green?

 

[Ethan]

I think that runoff at Loch Lomond was fair because there was plenty of green to land on, and he was coming in with timber. The 14th a Pebble Beach was a different story because the landing area was tiny and many players could not hold it with a sand iron.

When Clarkey put on his wet suit, I had a bad feeling about it.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I agree with the others. Early on in the final round why go chasing a glory shot with trouble lurking. There were better birdie opportunities and a 3rd from the fairway with a wedge had more chance of gettting close than a glory shot chasing an eagle. I thought the run off was fairly punishment.

Many of you will know I am a Paula Creamer fan (big time) and so was delighted with her win. I thought the course was every bit as penal as the mens US Open but the ladies seemed more content to play centre of the green golf. I do think one or two of the Pebble Beach holes were a touch unfair but at the end of the day it is the same for everyone and some coped better than others which surelyis what golf is about

 

[Robobum]

It might be unfair for one of our monthly medals but we're talking about the top echelons of world golf here.

I bet his pre shot conversation with his caddy didn't include going straight at that pin. If it did then he hit it at least 15yds short of his number.

 

[User 105]

I kind of understand what you're getting at. I think if there is a safe shot to the middle then that's the %age play then as some have said the pro's know the risk. They take it and it doesn't pay off then they have to take their medicine.

As Ethan has said, I think the 14th at pebble might have just been a step too far. You had such an small landing target that there wasn't really a 'safe' shot.

I think anytime in golf when a pro plays a shot under normal conditions where luck is a bigger factor than skill then that's got to be wrong.

It's a fine line. I strongly believe you have to make a course tough enough to separate the great from the good players. I do think they got it mostly right at Pebble where level par wins.

So now compare that to 26 under for Stricker at the John Deer.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

So now compare that to 26 under for Stricker at the John Deer

Tha problem with America is that some of the sponsors want a birdie fest, they don't necessarily want a good test of golf & if that's what the sponsors want, then that's what the sponsors get.

 

[brendy]

Im not sure if the sponsors get much of a say (I really don't), after all, they arnt greenkeepers!
A lot of greenkeepers are sadistic in my experience.

They put up with all of the complaints and "advice" from members (you know, accountants, factory workers, lorry drivers etc, those that are well in the know with all things horticultural!!) during the off season.
As soon as there is a sniff of a bounce on the greens they are in there making them as tricky as possible using bagfuls more speed and shaving the fringes. Our course has a couple of greens that during the winter wouldnt scare a nervous housemartin, give them a little dry time and sunshine and all of a sudden players are scared to take the cover off their putter for fear of running 20-40 yards back off and down the fairways.

 

[kid2]

If it was a decent shot clarke wouldnt have missed the green by a few feet....And as another post suggested he took the risk and paid the price.....He knew the slopes were there ....No sympathy from me im afraid