Are our schools failing our children?

[bluewolf]

Consecutive governments are failing our children. The state education has a fair bit wrong with it at present.

I am in a tricky position at the minute where my son is at a private school and my daughter is not.

This is due to my son being labelled at the (very highly regarded) state primary school in our village as having ADHD, dyslexia and possibly dyspraxia. They also wanted to refer him to a child psychologist. This was essentially because he was a non-conformist and didn't do ANY work because he didn't have to as he was in a totally consequence free environment there. When he scribbled in his books instead of doing any work, we were told that they felt he was "expressing himself in the only way he can."

Fortunately for us, my younger sister actually IS a child psychologist and said that there was absolutely nothing wrong with him. He is exceptionally bright in fact and my sister (who is a Guardian reading lefty tree hugger) said through gritted teeth that a private school might be the answer as their are stricter boundaries and no room for slacking or taking the easy option. We transferred him to a local private school a year ago and he is now a totally different child. His books are full of beautiful work, he has passed every exam (exams every term for 12 subjects) taken, his end of term reports are generally excellent, his teachers all think he is fantastic and his speech, manners and respect for others are now some of his best attributes.

Yet the state system said he had a series of conditions that meant in their view, he was borderline un-teachable?


The difference between the two schools could not be more stark. One prepares you for life wonderfully and the other is passively pushing out the latest fad in leftist educational theory. It is probably the number one source of misery in my life that I cannot afford at the moment to send my daughter there too. Fortunately, she is one of the star pupils at our village school and is succeeding, despite the curriculum and some of the teachers there. She would do well anywhere but we feel we are letting her down at the moment by not giving her the best that we can.

If my business picks up this year as it looks like it will, we will be moving her at the earliest opportunity. She is starting to say she really wants to change too as even a seven year old can see the difference and she does when she sometimes comes to events at his school.

I never thought I would put my kids through private school as I have always thought that the state system was good enough for me so it should be good enough for my offspring. I was wrong though. The schools and teaching have changed markedly and in my view, based on our bitter experience, not for the better.

Not disagreeing with your choice to send your Son to a private school, but I should point out that not all state schools are the same. We recently moved both our children from the local village school due to the implementation of some rather strange initiatives by the new "Executive" Headteacher. Both children were doing well, with excellent reports and test scores at the time.

When we moved them, the new Headteacher summoned us in to school and informed us that they were both approximately 12 months behind where they should be. With some extra help from the school (and us at home), both kids caught up in 6 months and are now starting to excel.

The new school has a very energetic headteacher. This energy is passed on to the teachers. The school is in the process of upgrading most of its facilities (and as a bonus, is just across the road from the Golf Club ). The best move we've ever made...

 

[JCW]

We have fail them , don't blame the system , too many video games , hour after hour the kids of today play these games , they not as fit these days on all counts , we never spent that much time in our youth , everything comes easy to a lot of them making them weak , we the parents bring up our kids so its down to us , manners , respect , education , discipline , we are the ones that ensure they have all that , its our job .........so the cant be bothered is why we have fallen behind ...............not all are like that I might add but plenty are .....................EYG

 

[Region3]

My daughter is 11. When I help her with her homework I first of all ask how she has been taught to do the task she has been set.
Some weeks I am at a loss for words.

When I was at school we got shown how to do long multiplication, long division etc.
Now it seems they dress everything up with flowers in an effort to get the kids to understand.

If I want to answer 24 + 13 I don't need to write a bloody number sentence!!!! </rant>

 

[LIG]

The bureaucracy in teaching puts many of the best educators off, no wonder that kids come out with a worse education as a result.

+1:thup:

All the best teachers are those who enjoy the way they can get kids enthusiastic about different kinds of things. It's interaction they feed off and their enthusiasm rubs off on kids. People like that tend not to enjoy bureaucracy and form filling imho.

This is why you have "outstanding" schools where kids are taught "outstanding" lessons by "outstanding" teachers when the reality is that you have a school geared up to pass the inspection regime. Inspection provides more of a snapshot view of a school's admin processes and whether teacher's follow approved lesson plans, rather than whether something has been learnt AND understood by the kids!

 

[Hacker Khan]

The difference between the two schools could not be more stark. One prepares you for life wonderfully and the other is passively pushing out the latest fad in leftist educational theory.

But isn't Michael Gove a right wing conservative?

 

[sev112]

My daughter is in a state primary school
They have an eclectic mix of kids, including local travellers, a big army garrison and middle class.
You can't actually tell from the kids who is who, which I think is great

I went to meet the maths teacher a year and a half ago - I could not believe how impressed I was in how they teach them maths.
Now I have 2 engineering degrees, one of them a masters in theoretical mechanics, so I have maths coming out of my ...

They teach them times tables, they teach them estimation, they teach a VARIETY of ways of doing long division and multiplication. In fact column multiplication and division ( what we used to be taught, and the only way we were taught ! ) was one of the later things they get taught.

I really wish that I had been taught maths like that. In our schools, if you didn't get long division etc.you were in the "dim" class !
One of the reasons they teach more than one method is because (funnily enough given the complete amount of agreement on every subject on here ) is that different kids pick up different things in different ways. I can't remember the correct term, but that also helps kids with the equivalent of number dyslexia.

Apparently that's also why now kids get taught to read by a variety of methods - some words they do the old C ...a...t thing that we were taught, but they also get taught to recognise words and phrases , and to link new words to similar words. This way, again, different kids have a better chance of understanding one method which leads to better success with the others. Rather than being marks down as dim.

So, I'm not disagreeing with anyone, just pointing out that many teachers are trying to do their best by our kids, and that we don't know it all when it comes to educating them . And that not all state schools are the same.


Slightly off the theme
I dont ever work out 8 x 7 = 56, I just know it. Because I learned my times tables by rote. I'm glad i did.
Doesn't help me work out 79 x 68 - I would have had to do a long multiplication on paper.
My daughter could get to the right number pretty quickly (as I said she is 10) - because she has also been taught to estimate the answer to start with ("chunking" I think is the term)then zoom in to get the precise answer.
PPs - they have to show all their working in their maths homework too

 

[cleanstrike]

One thing I've never understood since leaving school is why my maths teacher wasted four years of his life trying to teach me algebra, logarithms, and quadratic equations. I patiently explained to him on numerous occasions that it was completely pointless as I would never encounter a situation where I might have to use such knowledge but he seemed wholly incapable of taking no for an answer.

So, Mr. Archibald, if you're still alive and by some strange quirk of fate you ever read this ... I told you so!

 

[Deleted member 18588]

But isn't Michael Gove a right wing conservative?

Yes he is.

But the educationalists responsible for "teaching the teachers" are, in the main, left leaning Guardianistas. This is confirmed by my son who qualified as a teacher within the last few years.

 

[sev112]

One thing I've never understood since leaving school is why my maths teacher wasted four years of his life trying to teach me algebra, logarithms, and quadratic equations. I patiently explained to him on numerous occasions that it was completely pointless as I would never encounter a situation where I might have to use such knowledge but he seemed wholly incapable of taking no for an answer.

So, Mr. Archibald, if you're still alive and by some strange quirk of fate you ever read this ... I told you so!

Mate I tell you what, I have told exactly that to various examining boards and engineering institutions moderating boards

As I mentioned I have two very theoretical engineering degrees both of which involved huge amounts of differential equations and integral calculus ( which I hated) so you would think I, of all people would have need to know all that, but in 25 years of professional practise I have used a set of partial differential equations once !!!!!!

Personally I think it's a huge waste, and we would be better off teaching the stuff that my daughter is being taught in maths at primary school - they are currently doing stuff that I did in my Statistics O level ! Now that was a useful bit of maths that I have used in reams

 

[Kellfire]

Learning advanced maths isn't just about using that exactly method in your life, it teaches you how to think.

 

[Hacker Khan]

My daughter is in a state primary school
They have an eclectic mix of kids, including local travellers, a big army garrison and middle class.
You can't actually tell from the kids who is who, which I think is great

I went to meet the maths teacher a year and a half ago - I could not believe how impressed I was in how they teach them maths.
Now I have 2 engineering degrees, one of them a masters in theoretical mechanics, so I have maths coming out of my ...

They teach them times tables, they teach them estimation, they teach a VARIETY of ways of doing long division and multiplication. In fact column multiplication and division ( what we used to be taught, and the only way we were taught ! ) was one of the later things they get taught.

I really wish that I had been taught maths like that. In our schools, if you didn't get long division etc.you were in the "dim" class !
One of the reasons they teach more than one method is because (funnily enough given the complete amount of agreement on every subject on here ) is that different kids pick up different things in different ways. I can't remember the correct term, but that also helps kids with the equivalent of number dyslexia.

Apparently that's also why now kids get taught to read by a variety of methods - some words they do the old C ...a...t thing that we were taught, but they also get taught to recognise words and phrases , and to link new words to similar words. This way, again, different kids have a better chance of understanding one method which leads to better success with the others. Rather than being marks down as dim.

So, I'm not disagreeing with anyone, just pointing out that many teachers are trying to do their best by our kids, and that we don't know it all when it comes to educating them . And that not all state schools are the same.

Fine post. Teaching methods are not lead by a political persuasion, but based on the latest research and thinking on the way children learn.

 

[Sharktooth]

As everyone is doing the "when I was a lad... Etc," here is my two bobs worth. Our secondary school teachers, men and women, used to head to the pub every lunch time and come back reekin. Aye, the good old days right enough.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Fine post. Teaching methods are not lead by a political persuasion, but based on the latest research and thinking on the way children learn.

This opinion is based upon what?
As I said my son, who is certainly no right wing Daily Mail reader, was consistently amazed by the overtly left-wing attitudes being displayed by many of his trainers.
Education should be free of political agendas or dogma whether right or left wing. Sadly since the 1960's this has not been the case.
We would all do well to remember that the child gets only one shot at it and cannot return several years later to try again after it has been realised that previously "accepted" wisdom was actually bunkum and failed the children.
Both this and the previous administration are obsessed with targets and statistics with the result that much of the time that could be devoted to educating the children is being eaten up by administration.

 

[Foxholer]

Do NOT get me started about the teaching methodology now spouted by all the new young brainwashed teachers nowadays!
:angry:

Try 'method' or maybe 'philosophy' if you want to be 'up-market'! 'The item correctly uses 'method'!

Methodology is actually (well, when not corrupted) the study of Methods!

As for whether schools ARE failing..... It's also actually a question of 'WERE' failing... As those exiting the system are exhibiting the symptoms/philosophies of what the system was quite a number of years ago (at least 5).

As for basic Arithmetic....Ever bought and got a discount for a purchase in Singapore? When I came over here nearly 25 years ago, I was astonished that Shop Assistants in this 'World Leading Technology' place, and ranked #2 in those tests, dived straight for the calculator to calculate 10% of a value; or to calculate simple change like the example above!

 

[Hacker Khan]

This opinion is based upon what?
As I said my son, who is certainly no right wing Daily Mail reader, was consistently amazed by the overtly left-wing attitudes being displayed by many of his trainers.
Education should be free of political agendas or dogma whether right or left wing. Sadly since the 1960's this has not been the case.
We would all do well to remember that the child gets only one shot at it and cannot return several years later to try again after it has been realised that previously "accepted" wisdom was actually bunkum and failed the children.
Both this and the previous administration are obsessed with targets and statistics with the result that much of the time that could be devoted to educating the children is being eaten up by administration.

Because I am a training manager and contribute to and read a lot of research into learning. Yes I am not in education, but a lot of the principals of learning and how the brain works are the same. A method of teaching, such as phonics, can not be classed as left wing where as chalk and talk is right wing. As they are not, they are just different methods used at the time.

There may well have been lecturers with leftish views, but I would be amazed if teaching methods themselves were chosen based on how it fits into some ones political leanings.

P.s the rest of your post is completely right As soon as we start picking the best person in the country to be minister for anything, as opposed to a short term incumbent who will have minimal experience in that field, the better. Other countries do it.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

P.s the rest of your post is completely right As soon as we start picking the best person in the country to be minister for anything, as opposed to a short term incumbent who will have minimal experience in that field, the better. Other countries do it

.[/QUOTE]

Sadly the only time that has happened was during WW2 when there was a National Government crossing all party lines.

As, hopefully the circumstances will not arise again we are, on the downside, never going to ever again see common sense government of this country.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Sadly the only time that has happened was during WW2 when there was a National Government crossing all party lines.

As, hopefully the circumstances will not arise again we are, on the downside, never going to ever again see common sense government of this country.[/QUOTE]

I'm not talking picking a sitting MP, but get ministers from outside of parliament who is an expert in that field. Many other countries do it, as anyone who watches Borgen will know. The PM actually has a very narrow field to chose from (must be a sitting MP who is not likely to get booted out in the next election, must agree with the PM on most issues, no skeletons or scandals in the past) when filling some of the most important positions in the country. I suspect that they are grateful if just one person they have to chose from has some expertise in a chosen field. Which when you think about it is stupid when you have so much expertise in those areas in other walks of life.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Sadly the only time that has happened was during WW2 when there was a National Government crossing all party lines.

As, hopefully the circumstances will not arise again we are, on the downside, never going to ever again see common sense government of this country.

I'm not talking picking a sitting MP, but get ministers from outside of parliament who is an expert in that field. Many other countries do it, as anyone who watches Borgen will know. The PM actually has a very narrow field to chose from (must be a sitting MP who is not likely to get booted out in the next election, must agree with the PM on most issues, no skeletons or scandals in the past) when filling some of the most important positions in the country. I suspect that they are grateful if just one person they have to chose from has some expertise in a chosen field. Which when you think about it is stupid when you have so much expertise in those areas in other walks of life.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely agree but if I remember my history correctly the National Government included lay people. Far too many of today's politicians within all parties have little or no experience outside of politics.

 

[AuburnWarrior]

My daughter is learning to spell - using sounds. She's 8.
Every week they instruct us to teach her words with a certain sound in it, for example, 'oi' - choice.

Now, I'm no expert but the English language cannot be learnt by sound. Phone and fight sound the same but are spelt differently.

I asked the teacher why the children aren't taught to learn the words as they are spelt rather than as they sound and she said that it was a new way of teaching. Brilliant. oo:

 

[Hacker Khan]

My daughter is learning to spell - using sounds. She's 8.
Every week they instruct us to teach her words with a certain sound in it, for example, 'oi' - choice.

Now, I'm no expert but the English language cannot be learnt by sound. Phone and fight sound the same but are spelt differently.

I asked the teacher why the children aren't taught to learn the words as they are spelt rather than as they sound and she said that it was a new way of teaching. Brilliant. oo:

With all due respect, if you are no expert then leave it to the experts. How would you like it if someone who knew very little about the field you are in came in and told you how you should be doing your job?