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AND HERE WE GO - THE 2019 GENERAL ELECTION THREAD

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Hacker Khan said:
I've put that through Tory Political Google Translate and it translated that as 'Labour addressed the situation so it reached a new low in the late noughties and since then the Tories have not prioritized it, which combined with other cuts to public services over that time meant it has risen alarmingly again. So based on that over whelming evidence that it fell during Labour administration and has risen again a lot under a Tory administration, let's just agree no one can do anything about it'.
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Labour came to power in 1997 and the situation worsened through to 2004, that's seven years when the economy was relatively strong.
 
MetalMickie said:
So the peak was in 2003-04.

Remind me again which party was in Government.

On the issue of homelessness neither party has any credibility.
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So Labour were in government in 2003-04 and worked to get it down to the much lower level it was at when the Conservatives came to power in 2010.

We know all about austerity and why the conservatives say it was essential - but austerity was a Conservative government choice - and it was the choice of the Conservatives where the cuts were made. Lying about responsibility is not the same as not having any credibility.

Why is Javid saying what he is saying about homelessness since 2010 when it is simply not true.
 
Hacker Khan said:
Seems 3 MEPs have quit the Conservative party to join the Brexit party. Sorry, I meant quit the Brexit party to join the Brexit party, no, quit the Conservatives to join the Conservatives. Aah jeez, why is it so difficult to tell the 2 parties apart nowadays. I meant quit the Brexit party to join the Tories.

Frankly I'm fuming as I thought my vote for the fragrant Ms Rees-Mogg in the European elections was so I could get a MEP from essentially a one issue party mostly trying to take us back to the 1970s to represent me. But now it turns out my MEP has quit the Conservatives and joined the Brexit party. Sorry, other way round, it's so confusing...

https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/local-news/east-midlands-mep-annunziata-rees-3611425
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oooh my head is just spinning...(mind you there's a lot of it about)

 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
So Labour were in government in 2003-04 and worked to get it down to the much lower level it was at when the Conservatives came to power in 2010.

We know all about austerity and why the conservatives say it was essential - but austerity was a Conservative government choice - and it was the choice of the Conservatives where the cuts were made. Lying about responsibility is not the same as not having any credibility.

Why is Javid saying what he is saying about homelessness since 2010 when it is simply not true.
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How do the figures stack up compared with 1997 to 2008?

And I agree Javid has twisted the truth to breaking point but that certainly doesn't mean that we should pretend that Labour's overall record on this subject was anything to be particularly proud of.
 
Hacker Khan said:
So Labour do not always crash the economy after all?? So Javid was lying about that as well?? Jeez, I'm not 100% sure I trust the Tories after this bombshell...
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Returning to the original question are we to ignore what happened to the homeless during that period, or is it inconvenient to your narrative?
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
So Labour were in government in 2003-04 and worked to get it down to the much lower level it was at when the Conservatives came to power in 2010.

We know all about austerity and why the conservatives say it was essential - but austerity was a Conservative government choice - and it was the choice of the Conservatives where the cuts were made. Lying about responsibility is not the same as not having any credibility.

Why is Javid saying what he is saying about homelessness since 2010 when it is simply not true.
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So what other choice did the Conservatives have than austerity (or reducing borrowing as I prefer to call it) Should they have borrowed the country out of debt ? Also it was not a decision by the Conservatives alone, it was a coalition decision.
 
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Hacker Khan said:
I've put that through Tory Political Google Translate and it translated that as 'Labour addressed the situation so it reached a new low in the late noughties and since then the Tories have not prioritized it, which combined with other cuts to public services over that time meant it has risen alarmingly again. So based on that over whelming evidence that it fell during Labour administration and has risen again a lot under a Tory administration, let's just agree no one can do anything about it'.
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Still a week to go before we vote, plenty of time to blame Labour for shooting JFK and a photo of Corbyn as a kid advising Hitler were to invade. ;)
 
pauldj42 said:
The JLM have come out and stated they won’t support Corbyn but are doing their utmost to also stop a Labour Government.
It makes no sense, they don’t have the support of all Jews or all Jewish MP’s and if there is a danger from another Krystal Nacht history tells us that comes from the Right side of politics.
You have a complete distrust in Corbyn, I have no issue with that, but the damage the JLM is doing is to the whole Party and Jewish people.

Membership of the JLM, you don’t have to be Jewish, You don’t have to be a member of the Labour Party.
People at the top of the group ex-employees of the Isreali Embassy.

Their aims and their political views seem at cross purposes to me.
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You still haven't answered my points in post 2941, nor do you seem to take onboard the point in 2941 that includes that Labour have acknowledged they have a problem.

As for your comment about the far right in Germany attacking the jews... are you saying its ok for the far left(Labour) to do so? Antisemitism exists in the Labour, which they have openly acknowledged yet you're happy with that.

For me its about leopards and spots. If it had been a speeding or parking fine it wouldn't be given a second glance. It isn't, its about something extremely vile, and by people who've tried to dodge and weave away from the issue for years.

I'm not arguing against a socialist govt or a significant change in spending. I'm not arguing for a Tory govt. I'm arguing that Labour, with that top table is unfit for office.
 
Hobbit said:
You still haven't answered my points in post 2941, nor do you seem to take onboard the point in 2941 that includes that Labour have acknowledged they have a problem.

As for your comment about the far right in Germany attacking the jews... are you saying its ok for the far left(Labour) to do so? Antisemitism exists in the Labour, which they have openly acknowledged yet you're happy with that.

For me its about leopards and spots. If it had been a speeding or parking fine it wouldn't be given a second glance. It isn't, its about something extremely vile, and by people who've tried to dodge and weave away from the issue for years.

I'm not arguing against a socialist govt or a significant change in spending. I'm not arguing for a Tory govt. I'm arguing that Labour, with that top table is unfit for office.
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I thought I had answered the posts, I’m talking about the JLM stance on Corbyn since 2016 and April this year when they passed the motion at their AGM to oppose Corbyn and his attempt to become PM.
As for his history with Hezbollah etc, he has campaigned against the Israeli occupation and their rights, I can turn that question around by asking how the jews that have come out and supported him and attempting to become MP’s have reconciled his past and their beliefs.
I’ve got to the point were I have to decide between Corbyn and boris, boris is a bigger threat to this Country in my opinion.
I don’t believe the Labour party has the antisemite problem the JLM claim, although I totally agree any and every allegation should be investigated.
Below is a tweet from an account called GnasherJew, an account claiming to expose left wing antisemitism, run by Jewish Investigative journalists & ex Labour members.
Tell me if this doesn’t tell people what part of the issue is:
CCE851BB-CD9F-4C87-86A8-23590EFA1758.jpeg
 
Swinson in the news again bleating about the 'stitch I'm between the Torys and the Brexit party. Is this the same as the stitch up between her and the greens and other parties ? ?
 
Grant85 said:
Population growth is different from demographics.

UK population faces a specific challenge, namely the big spike in birth rate following WW2 and these 'baby boomers' all reaching retirement at the same time having been one of 4 or 5 children, and themsleves having about 2 children. This means we have a shortage of working age people, relative to non-working age people. Add to that medical and lifestyle advances and many in this generation will have retirements stretching into a 4th decade! Generally withdrawing far more, than they are paying in on a yearly basis. Not having a go or suggesting they aren't entitled, it's just a fact. And taking far far more out, on average, than someone having a child.

Immigration can, and does, help fill that gap. Many of these immigrants will come for a few years and return from where they came. Obviously many will stay and build a family.

Things that will help address the demographics in the long term.
* Consistent birth rate
* People working longer before retiring
* Immigration
* better investment in public services
* as I've said, encouragement of people / businesses to locate in other areas away from London / SE.

World Population Growth - potentially a big problem and in reality not going to be solved by immigration policy in the UK and there will generally be ongoing global pressure on food, resources, fuel, transport etc.
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I dont think we are going to agree on this subject, I would make a few points though.

I don't think many people would suggest we should have a zero immigration policy, it needs controlling so that it is targeted to meet requirements.

I don't understand how anyone can think uncontrolled immigration is good for the country.

How big should our population be so that it is sustainable?
 
I don't believe Corbyn is personally anti-semetic, nor is he a 'supporter of terrorists' as he has been described in the past. My view is that he supports (what he considers) the 'down-trodden', which includes/d Irish Nationalists (H'mm..A {PR disaster for him!) and the Palestinian movemnt (who I have some/significant sympathy with!).

I would not be surprised that 'history' eventually shows he was actually used as a/the conduit through which negotiations between UK government and the IRA were initiated, so he could well end up being something of a hero decades from now!

However, all his other policies are 'poor to abhorrent' to me, so I'm not a fan!

Oh and the overwhelming Tory bised 'Press' will simply continue their propaganda/castigation of him, so (fortunately) he dosn't really stand a chance!

Labour really needs to move to a 'populist' agenda (as per the Blair approach) in order to get elected! Until then, Tory idiots like Bozo (oops) won't face any real challenge - except from within!
 
pauldj42 said:
I thought I had answered the posts, I’m talking about the JLM stance on Corbyn since 2016 and April this year when they passed the motion at their AGM to oppose Corbyn and his attempt to become PM.
As for his history with Hezbollah etc, he has campaigned against the Israeli occupation and their rights, I can turn that question around by asking how the jews that have come out and supported him and attempting to become MP’s have reconciled his past and their beliefs.
I’ve got to the point were I have to decide between Corbyn and boris, boris is a bigger threat to this Country in my opinion.
I don’t believe the Labour party has the antisemite problem the JLM claim, although I totally agree any and every allegation should be investigated.
Below is a tweet from an account called GnasherJew, an account claiming to expose left wing antisemitism, run by Jewish Investigative journalists & ex Labour members.
Tell me if this doesn’t tell people what part of the issue is:
View attachment 28690
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You'd replied insomuch as they were included in a reply but you didn't reply to the points.

You're willing to vote Labour, and for the vast majority of their socialist policies I agree with you. I do question the affordability, especially the amount of spending in one term they are proposing - it won't happen. There'll be excuse after excuse that they can't afford it, and I don't have too much of a problem with that. Every party is making ludicrous promises, most of which will never see the light of day.

For me, the antisemitism is the red line. Nothing to do with Labour 'v' Tory, or whoever. I do wonder about a lesser of two evils comparison - as I've said before Johnson is Trump-lite. Nothing to do with their spending plans, because I don't believe many will come to fruition.

As for the JLM, they're (almost) new to this argument. You could even take the JLM bit out of it and just look at all the rubbish that has gone on since just before Chakrabati was in charge of the first whitewash. The stats are there, as I said, antisemitic attacks have risen in each of the last 3 years to their highest on record in each year - they are independent of any complaint from the JLM about the Labour Party.

Anyway, you won't convince me that Labour are anything other than guilty in terms of antisemitism - don't forget, they've admitted they have a problem. And in that respect they will not get my vote.
 
pauldj42 said:
I thought I had answered the posts, I’m talking about the JLM stance on Corbyn since 2016 and April this year when they passed the motion at their AGM to oppose Corbyn and his attempt to become PM.
As for his history with Hezbollah etc, he has campaigned against the Israeli occupation and their rights, I can turn that question around by asking how the jews that have come out and supported him and attempting to become MP’s have reconciled his past and their beliefs.
I’ve got to the point were I have to decide between Corbyn and boris, boris is a bigger threat to this Country in my opinion.
I don’t believe the Labour party has the antisemite problem the JLM claim, although I totally agree any and every allegation should be investigated.
Below is a tweet from an account called GnasherJew, an account claiming to expose left wing antisemitism, run by Jewish Investigative journalists & ex Labour members.
Tell me if this doesn’t tell people what part of the issue is:
View attachment 28690
Click to expand...
You will vote Labour, you always were going to.

So someone makes a tweet suggesting antisemitism is due to a group of ex labour Jewish Journalists , Jeez that looks very suspicious, I dont suppose momentum would be behind it?
 
SocketRocket said:
You will vote Labour, you always were going to.

So someone makes a tweet suggesting antisemitism is due to a group of ex labour Jewish Journalists , Jeez that looks very suspicious, I dont suppose momentum would be behind it?
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Feel free to google to the group, I don’t think they’d appreciate being linked with momentum, but hey ho, better to deflect than do some actual research.
 
pauldj42 said:
Feel free to google to the group, I don’t think they’d appreciate being linked with momentum, but hey ho, better to deflect than do some actual research.
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Your. Posting of it is a diversion from Labour's antisemitism accusations. Are you really suggesting that tweet lets Corbyn off the hook. Really!
 
Hobbit said:
You'd replied insomuch as they were included in a reply but you didn't reply to the points.

You're willing to vote Labour, and for the vast majority of their socialist policies I agree with you. I do question the affordability, especially the amount of spending in one term they are proposing - it won't happen. There'll be excuse after excuse that they can't afford it, and I don't have too much of a problem with that. Every party is making ludicrous promises, most of which will never see the light of day.

For me, the antisemitism is the red line. Nothing to do with Labour 'v' Tory, or whoever. I do wonder about a lesser of two evils comparison - as I've said before Johnson is Trump-lite. Nothing to do with their spending plans, because I don't believe many will come to fruition.

As for the JLM, they're (almost) new to this argument. You could even take the JLM bit out of it and just look at all the rubbish that has gone on since just before Chakrabati was in charge of the first whitewash. The stats are there, as I said, antisemitic attacks have risen in each of the last 3 years to their highest on record in each year - they are independent of any complaint from the JLM about the Labour Party.

Anyway, you won't convince me that Labour are anything other than guilty in terms of antisemitism - don't forget, they've admitted they have a problem. And in that respect they will not get my vote.
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You haven’t answered the point about how some jews support him.
As for the rest, that’s the blessing of being in a democracy and as we’ve both agreed in the past, it’s the lesser of 2 evils we have to choose between and with the tories failing to take responsibility for some of the problems we’ve faced over the last 9 years (the chancellor and the homeless today being another example) I believe the poorest and weakest will suffer more and we’ll also end up with a No Deal Brexit that will compound the problems.
 
SocketRocket said:
Your. Posting of it is a diversion from Labour's antisemitism accusations. Are you really suggesting that tweet lets Corbyn off the hook. Really!
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Rubbish, the Labour Party have said they abhor it and will investigate any accusations from anyone. Corbyn has apologised a few times,
Do you really agree people should sit on that information and wait to use it as per the reply in the post?
 
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