AND HERE WE GO - THE 2019 GENERAL ELECTION THREAD

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Meanwhile the readers of the Daily Express are to be scared s***less by headlines such as those in today's Daily Express?

£80Bn RAID ON YOUR WALLETS

https://www.express.co.uk/ourpaper

Now is that a deceit, misinformation, fake news or simply a lie? I guess it depends upon who you honestly think the the target audience for their YOUR is - but I suspect that many if not most of the readers of the Daily Express will not pay a penny more.

 

[drdel]

Meanwhile the readers of the Daily Express are to be scared s***less by headlines such as those in today's Daily Express?

£80Bn RAID ON YOUR WALLETS

https://www.express.co.uk/ourpaper

Now is that a deceit, misinformation, fake news or simply a lie? I guess it depends upon who you honestly think the the target audience for their YOUR is - but I suspect that many if not most of the readers of the Daily Express will not pay a penny more.

Blinkers off then perhaps you'd could take note of the FT...
" Labour sets out plans to raise taxes by £80bn a year – latest news ... The FT's chief political correspondent Jim Pickard "

 

[Deleted member 21258]

There is a online tax calculator, I put in the figure of £85000 as we have no idea of his actual wage.

As for what I’d be happy to pay, I’m not sure anyone could answer, it’s relative to my personal situation isn’t it, a £1000 pa or 5% etc to me maybe peanuts and a fortune to you.
Would certainly be happy paying more if it guaranteed a better society, would be disappointed if it meant bigger profits for the rich.

Its a simple employee net pay calculator. The calculator is somewhat worrying, as using this years tax rates/allowance an employee earning £85000, would only pay £21,500 in tax and you show £22,360, What is that about

So basically it ignores the vast number of people who will be paying the lion share of the additional tax, like business Ltd owners and companies.

Have you read this and understood who will be paying for it :-

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Funding-Real-Change-1.pdf

I am always interested when people say what they want, as most people aren't actually willing to pay the extra £2.5-5k needed to do it.

The examples I gave before are real life Joe public business owners. £2200(30k earnings) and £3300(40k earnings) worse off. These are people who would employee people and wont be able to afford to, due to taxation, £10 per hour and 32 hour week, 4 more paid holiday days etc

And to think I was thinking of voting labour this time. Not anymore, its crazy and feel for all those hard working business owners.

As mentioned before I am already seeing clients moving operations abroad and monies not invested in the UK due to uncertainty and high taxation will be another nail in the coffin. I find it very worrying for a UK Plc point of view.

Now wheres that link to apply for an Ireland passport

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Its a simple employee net pay calculator. The calculator is somewhat worrying, as using this years tax rates/allowance an employee earning £85000, would only pay £21,500 in tax and you show £22,360, What is that about

So basically it ignores the vast number of people who will be paying the lion share of the additional tax, like business Ltd owners and companies.

Have you read this and understood who will be paying for it :-

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Funding-Real-Change-1.pdf

I am always interested when people say what they want, as most people aren't actually willing to pay the extra £2.5-5k needed to do it.

The examples I gave before are real life Joe public business owners. £2200(30k earnings) and £3300(40k earnings) worse off. These are people who would employee people and wont be able to afford to, due to taxation, £10 per hour and 32 hour week, 4 more paid holiday days etc

And to think I was thinking of voting labour this time. Not anymore, its crazy and feel for all those hard working business owners.

As mentioned before I am already seeing clients moving operations abroad and monies not invested in the UK due to uncertainty and high taxation will be another nail in the coffin. I find it very worrying for a UK Plc point of view.

Now wheres that link to apply for an Ireland passport

You’ve sort of widened the net a bit the post was simply about the bloke on QT last night, we/you no nothing about him and his circumstances.
I’ll be the first to admit (as posted on here) I’m not at all clued up on taxes, corporation incl.
I also gave an honest opinion on the Labour manifesto, so I don’t really get your point in bringing the business owners in to it.
Feel free to look back at the discussions and explanations given by Hobbit and Colchesterfc last night.

 

[chrisd]

You’ve sort of widened the net a bit the post was simply about the bloke on QT last night, we/you no nothing about him and his circumstances.
I’ll be the first to admit (as posted on here) I’m not at all clued up on taxes, corporation incl.
I also gave an honest opinion on the Labour manifesto, so I don’t really get your point in bringing the business owners in to it.
Feel free to look back at the discussions and explanations given by Hobbit and Colchesterfc last night.

Paul, I'm sure DRW's numbers are correct, he is, I'm sure, an accountant

It has to be remembered that any increase in costs (enforced pay increases, taxes, etc etc) will eventually be added to their consumers costs and possibly make them uncompetitive and needing to shed staff due to lower orders. The breadth of increasing taxation needed to carry out Labour spending plans are colossal and will bust many businesses

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Paul, I'm sure DRW's numbers are correct, he is, I'm sure, an accountant

It has to be remembered that any increase in costs (enforced pay increases, taxes, etc etc) will eventually be added to their consumers costs and possibly make them uncompetitive and needing to shed staff due to lower orders. The breadth of increasing taxation needed to carry out Labour spending plans are colossal and will bust many businesses

Agreed Chris, not doubting DRW for one minute, but this was all explained last night, so I don’t get what repeating it does, I also stated my thoughts on their manifesto and the fairy stories.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Blinkers off then perhaps you'd could take note of the FT...
" Labour sets out plans to raise taxes by £80bn a year – latest news ... The FT's chief political correspondent Jim Pickard "

That FT headline is true (if the £80Bn figure is true - I assume that it is) - but it does not direct the message at a specific audience in the way that the DE headline does. One is honest - the other is not.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

That FT headline is true (if the £80Bn figure is true - I assume that it is) - but it does not direct the message at a specific audience in the way that the DE headline does. One is honest - the other is not.

I would not worry about the Express influencing its readers. Never has the phrase echo chamber been more apt. They are dedicated Conservative / Brexit voters. What they print will have no bearing on the election as those votes are cast already. It's a little like worrying that The Socialist Worker paper may influence people to vote Labour.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

You’ve sort of widened the net a bit the post was simply about the bloke on QT last night, we/you no nothing about him and his circumstances.
I’ll be the first to admit (as posted on here) I’m not at all clued up on taxes, corporation incl.
I also gave an honest opinion on the Labour manifesto, so I don’t really get your point in bringing the business owners in to it.
Feel free to look back at the discussions and explanations given by Hobbit and Colchesterfc last night.

Yet you posted about him and called him an idiot see below, totally uncalled for, especially if you don't know his circumstances :-

Rightly so, even the idiot on QT last night failed to realise that those earning 80K pa on Labour’s plans would only amount to £4.81 per week, a sum most of us regardless of wage would happily pay if it meant a better NHS etc.

You don't know his circumstances and your statement about £4.81 is a sweeping statement and is only applicable to someone PAYE and someone earning very close to 80k.

The statement highlighted above is a paper headline news kind of statements, as someone who is PAYE and earning near 80k aren't the people who are paying for the funding......

I just feel sorry for the bigger funders of this or people caught up with the massive changers, as I act manly for small/medium sized 'small' business and the effect will be enormous, I feel for them and the people they use/employ, as they cant afford all of it. As a result jobs and businesses will be lost without doubt and even longer working hours for the owners will be the future. The very large business will just work outside the UK and import services/goods to UK, as much as they can and operate much smaller business here.

I also feel for the people who will be put off from setting up a business or will go the black market route due to red tape/costs or even someone not employing someone due to costs/risks(I am an example of that kind of person, as it was part of the reason I didn't employ someone a few years ago, when I really needed to, due to the thought of the additional costs & red tape)

Not ranting, just in case it reads like it, just saying as I see it and how I think it will affect those kind of businesses I act for. All the best

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Paul, I'm sure DRW's numbers are correct, he is, I'm sure, an accountant

It has to be remembered that any increase in costs (enforced pay increases, taxes, etc etc) will eventually be added to their consumers costs and possibly make them uncompetitive and needing to shed staff due to lower orders. The breadth of increasing taxation needed to carry out Labour spending plans are colossal and will bust many businesses

I am confused.

Let's say I earn £85k.

I pay 40% Income Tax on income over the 40% threshold - and that does not change. As things stand I pay 40% tax on my income from the threshold up to £80k, and 40% on income over £80k (up to the next threshold).

With a new 45% threshold at £80k my income tax on earnings between the 40% threshold and £80k remains the same - my income tax on earnings over £80k increases by 5%.

And so if I am earning £85K I pay 5% extra tax on £5k. 5% x £5k = £250/year = £4.81 a week.

Is that not what we are talking about? Most earners pay income tax under PAYE and do not have complex income streams.

And so if I earn £100k that 4x£5k's at 45% = 4x£4.81=£19.24/week extra tax.

Now I am sorry - but if someone earning £100k/year moans about paying less than £20/week extra tax - then that says quite a lot about them...

 

[jp5]

Couldn't put it better myself...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1197864802607124480

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I would not worry about the Express influencing its readers. Never has the phrase echo chamber been more apt. They are dedicated Conservative / Brexit voters. What they print will have no bearing on the election as those votes are cast already. It's a little like worrying that The Socialist Worker paper may influence people to vote Labour.

It's not just DE buyers who will read the front page of the DE. Many will see the front page in the newspaper stands/shelfs at their newsagent or filling station. So let's make sure the headline is in as large text as possible so that it can't be missed by anyone glancing in the direction of a newstand.

 

[harpo_72]

So after all that ... what would be the amount extra per week at 80k, 70k, 60k 50k 40k 30k 20k ... ignoring pensions, company cars etc as they are life choices.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Yet you posted about him and called him an idiot see below, totally uncalled for, especially if you don't know his circumstances :-



You don't know his circumstances and your statement about £4.81 is a sweeping statement and is only applicable to someone PAYE and someone earning very close to 80k.

The statement highlighted above is a paper headline news kind of statements, as someone who is PAYE and earning near 80k aren't the people who are paying for the funding......

I just feel sorry for the bigger funders of this or people caught up with the massive changers, as I act manly for small/medium sized 'small' business and the effect will be enormous, I feel for them and the people they use/employ, as they cant afford all of it. As a result jobs and businesses will be lost without doubt and even longer working hours for the owners will be the future. The very large business will just work outside the UK and import services/goods to UK, as much as they can and operate much smaller business here.

I also feel for the people who will be put off from setting up a business or will go the black market route due to red tape/costs or even someone not employing someone due to costs/risks(I am an example of that kind of person, as it was part of the reason I didn't employ someone a few years ago, when I really needed to, due to the thought of the additional costs & red tape)

Not ranting, just in case it reads like it, just saying as I see it and how I think it will affect those kind of businesses I act for. All the best

Did you watch the clip?
He came across as a first class idiot.

 

[patricks148]

Well, nobody's talking much about the principle of private v nationisation .
I get the impression that some posters on here are owners of businesses, some , if not all, being against the railways nationalisation.
May I ask you this? If you sold your business to me and I ran it and made a profit, you would not expect me to give you some of those profits,would you? On the other hand, if I made a loss, what would you say if I came to you for some more funds to continue running the business.?
Exactly. Go forth and multiply.
But that is what the private train companies do ask of the Government, do they not, when making a loss?
It's wrong . It's having the cheek of the devil.
But why is it considered OK for the Government to pump money into the railways, even under these circumstances of private ownership?
Because they are a vital part of a country's infrastructure and necessary for it to survive as a secure and properly functioning unit, under all circumstances, even in war.
Same applies to utilities like water and power. They are a country's essential assets without which it couldn't function and keep its citizens safe.
So they should, for that reason alone, be controlled by the Government. And they cannot do that properly if owned privately.
Whether they are run inefficiently seems the main argument of those opposed to nationalisation, but it is a minor consideration compared with those reasons above.
To argue otherwise is a call for the Armed forces and Emergency services, Health service etc to be privatised.
Whether anything is run efficiently or not is down to good strong management, free of political correctness, and that is achievable, by good fair personnel -privately or nationally owned.

i think when all these NI were sold of we were promised, more investment, better service, cometative pricing so fair may even come down choice...

have we had any of that with the railways?

i won't even go into water

 

[Deleted member 21258]

So after all that ... what would be the amount extra per week at 80k, 70k, 60k 50k 40k 30k 20k ... ignoring pensions, company cars etc as they are life choices.

For WHO ? its not that easy.

If you are a PAYE person, the vast majority probably not much difference.

If you are an owner of a small Ltd business or employ someone or a Limited company or a charity employing people or the like, massive changes and additional costs. Like massive, I would probably go on to say possible game changing amounts for those affect, which will lead to less business and less jobs IMHO.

Time will tell.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

It's not just DE buyers who will read the front page of the DE. Many will see the front page in the newspaper stands/shelfs at their newsagent or filling station. So let's make sure the headline is in as large text as possible so that it can't be missed by anyone glancing in the direction of a newstand.

Yes, but does anyone take it seriously? It really is a joke newspaper and people that see the headline know this. I don't like the DM but I do acknowledge it does its job very well. The Express however is just nonsense.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Paul, I'm sure DRW's numbers are correct, he is, I'm sure, an accountant

It has to be remembered that any increase in costs (enforced pay increases, taxes, etc etc) will eventually be added to their consumers costs and possibly make them uncompetitive and needing to shed staff due to lower orders. The breadth of increasing taxation needed to carry out Labour spending plans are colossal and will bust many businesses

Just been listening to small business owners expressing concern over increase in the minimum wage - and saying that it would probably be passed on to the customer or result in job losses. Hmmm. I reflect upon one of the main benefits that low paid workers who voted to leave the EU are expecting to come about once we have left and immigration is cut - yup - that's right - increased wages.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Yes, but does anyone take it seriously? It really is a joke newspaper and people that see the headline know this. I don't like the DM but I do acknowledge it does its job very well. The Express however is just nonsense.

It doesn't really matter that you know that the DE is nonsense (btw - does that make it's readers stupid to believe what they read?) What we see at a glance is a huge headline blasting out £80Bn RAID ON YOUR WALLETS

You might not even notice which newspaper it is - but you notice the headline. And they stick.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

Did you watch the clip?
He came across as a first class idiot.

Not sure I have ever called anyone an idiot, as it is not a phrase I like tbh and I don't view anyone as an idiot, everyone is equal in my eyes

Anyway I am done here , as £4.81 you stated is just a nonsense statement, as I have shown in my replies.