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AND HERE WE GO - THE 2019 GENERAL ELECTION THREAD

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Blue in Munich said:
What is it Boris doesn't understand about Corbyn's position on Brexit? He made himself perfectly clear & it's a position that I might find myself in agreement with.
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Surely its that Corbyn won't say whether he would campaign for his own proposed negotiated deal with the EU or campaign to Leave the EU.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Just on that little statement. It absolutely is. So why do Tories continually parrot the 'We will Get Brexit Done in 2020 - Labour will inflict two referendum upon us' line - when the audience is the UK electorate. I'm not actually sure that Labour are suggesting that Scotland will have a referendum in 2020 if Sturgeon requests one. But hey.

Of course we know it is aimed at all of who are tired with what has happened since the last referendum - and the 'Brendas of Bristol' of this world who can't be bothered with too much democracy. So let's spin a little deceit to the English/Welsh/NI electorate about Labour plans.

The issue is pretty obvious. There is an electorate of about 4m in Scotland and the main political battle in Scotland will not be addressed at all by a Tory v Labour Head to Head debate - indeed such a H2H is almost irrelevant for many if not most of the Scottish electorate.
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It is up to each individual how they interpret what the Tories mean by the statement you quote or any statement by any politician. But this has nothing to do with my original post.

I disagree with the issue you say is obvious. It is a UK election so we only have a UK electorate. There is no Scottish electorate in a UK election. Location, race, nationality, ethnicity, gender, sexual preference, shoe size or anything else does not make you part of a different electorate. You are part of the UK electorate because it is a UK election. Gay people are not the gay electorate they are gay members of the UK electorate.

H2H may well seem irrelevant if you view yourself as the Scottish electorate. If however you viewed yourself as part of the UK electorate then you might consider whether it is beneficial to your fellow citizens or the nation as a whole.
 
Doon frae Troon said:
How about because at the moment they are a political party within the UK.
Or is that too simple for you.
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Yes, it does seem a bit simple to me because ‘national’ would require a representation or presence in the whole nation for the definition to make sense to me.



But if we can’t agree on the definition I will just use yours and my argument will remain the same. The SNP does not have candidates in enough seats to ever form a UK government. The leaders debates are national debates for the parties who could form a government if they can convince the people to vote for them. The debate is for them to tell us how they would run the country if elected. It is pointless for the SNP to tell us what they would do if we elect them to government because it is not possible for us to do that.
 
Pro Zach said:
Yes, it does seem a bit simple to me because ‘national’ would require a representation or presence in the whole nation for the definition to make sense to me.



But if we can’t agree on the definition I will just use yours and my argument will remain the same. The SNP does not have candidates in enough seats to ever form a UK government. The leaders debates are national debates for the parties who could form a government if they can convince the people to vote for them. The debate is for them to tell us how they would run the country if elected. It is pointless for the SNP to tell us what they would do if we elect them to government because it is not possible for us to do that.
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But they can tell the UK what they would do if they formed a coalition government/opposition.
That is how the antiquated daft Westminster system works.
PR would see a totally different line up, much more representative of how the people vote.
Works well in Scotland.
So well that Labour and even the Tories are continuing to steal many of the Scottish Governments best policies.
 
Pro Zach said:
H2H may well seem irrelevant if you view yourself as the Scottish electorate. If however you viewed yourself as part of the UK electorate then you might consider whether it is beneficial to your fellow citizens or the nation as a whole.
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Insert Borders railway [Paid for by SG] with HS2 [paid for by UKG] and reverse Scottish and UK and see how that reads.
 
Just watched the debate on replay, that's an hour of my life I won't get back.. The host was awful then there were the mass debtors... Dodging question by sticking to their one pertinent point they're using to fight the election with Boris and Brexit, Corbyn and the NHS no direct answers to anything other than spinning it back to the main weapon in their armoury. Should've just let the little ones watch Cbeebies when I got up instead.
 
Wolf said:
Just watched the debate on replay, that's an hour of my life I won't get back.. The host was awful then there were the mass debtors... Dodging question by sticking to their one pertinent point they're using to fight the election with Boris and Brexit, Corbyn and the NHS no direct answers to anything other than spinning it back to the main weapon in their armoury. Should've just let the little ones watch Cbeebies when I got up instead.
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Couldn't watch it, saw the lowlights on the news though, as Sky lady said it's a case if who is least repellent for the electorate to choose a PM which is fairly depressing, both candidates laughed at by audience, what a choice. in my area it's either SNP or Lib Dem for MP, Labour/Cons have no propsects at all, appreciate the tv 'debate' was for the likely next PM but it seemed a bit biased in terms of influencing voters with only the 2 participants thing, for many it's the 2 party system that's wrong with UK politics.
Bin these Americanised tv debates, achieve very little imho.
 
maxfli65 said:
Couldn't watch it, saw the lowlights on the news though, as Sky lady said it's a case if who is least repellent for the electorate to choose a PM which is fairly depressing, both candidates laughed at by audience, what a choice. in my area it's either SNP or Lib Dem for MP, Labour/Cons have no propsects at all, appreciate the tv 'debate' was for the likely next PM but it seemed a bit biased in terms of influencing voters with only the 2 participants thing, for many it's the 2 party system that's wrong with UK politics.
Bin these Americanised tv debates, achieve very little imho.
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I did not watch it, but it sounds like they need a paxman like figure who will pull them back to the question.
 
maxfli65 said:
Couldn't watch it, saw the lowlights on the news though, as Sky lady said it's a case if who is least repellent for the electorate to choose a PM which is fairly depressing, both candidates laughed at by audience, what a choice. in my area it's either SNP or Lib Dem for MP, Labour/Cons have no propsects at all, appreciate the tv 'debate' was for the likely next PM but it seemed a bit biased in terms of influencing voters with only the 2 participants thing, for many it's the 2 party system that's wrong with UK politics.
Bin these Americanised tv debates, achieve very little imho.
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Agree with everything bar the last sentance. The debates are the only time we as voters have a chance to see the "leaders" properly roasted. The hosts are atrocious. They are the equivalent of Corbyn and Bojo. They should be ripped to bits, and there not.
 
Kellfire said:
They stand for bigotry and hate.
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This is what worries me should we not have a choice in this matter as we could have an unpleasant extreme minority affecting our government. Or should there be a rule set in place that says the third highest makes a decision on who they will govern with?

Would love to know the total cost of the DUP alliance.
 
did anyone watch the interviews at 10? No matter what you think of him Nigel was THE standout leader of the night. Can you believe him? Hell yes. When asked what does he do personally about carbon? His response? "well I fly and drive a car so I can't really answer that"

How honest can you be?
 
and all this taxing flights rubbish by the greens and yellows only means that the rich (as usual) aren't affected. If they want to introduce something to kerb flights then issue everyone with two flight vouchers per year, once used that's it. Got one left over? Sell it to the highest bidder!!!!
 
I didn't watch the debate, and by the sound of many comments it panned out as expected. However, I've seen a number of interviews since in which various party spokespeople defend their leaders. The aggression displayed by some of those politicians, and the downright lies, just beggars belief. James Cleverley's responses were quite revealing - not someone I'd want to invite for tea. As for Rebecca Long-Bailey... just where has honesty and integrity gone? There's barely a sign of it coming out of the mouths of any politicians.
 
As for BJ and Corbin. Utter rubbish. VERY disappointed with BJ. Yes, ram home the Brexit thing, but once the questions are on a different subject tell the electorate your plans. Did he? Nope! Actually thought Corbin, started with the audience against him, but as BJ floundered actually won the debate overall. I'll bet Nige is regretting his decision to not stand against BJ in the south. After last night Brexit party would walk it.
 
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