Abnormal Ground Condition

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

An area of fairway has been significantly damaged by mowers to the extent that the grass has been ripped up; by ‘significantly’ I mean multiple patches of up to a square yard each.

If the area is not marked as GUR and there is no known temporary LR indicating that relief from abnormal ground conditions is afforded, can players in a group playing a competition round unilaterally agree that, for a ball ending up of the area, abnormal ground condition applies. Does this depend upon the nature of the competition (players are in a match or players are in a medal scenario).

My default thought would be to play two balls - just wondering if there is anything more definitive.

 

[Swango1980]

I'm pretty sure it is never the case a group within a stroke play competition can suddenly delegate themselves the power of Committee, decide a condition they may get relief from, regardless of the fact everyone else in the competition has to play by different rules?

 

[backwoodsman]

Best to just read the definition of 'ground under repair'. If the committee have not defined it as GUR, and it doesn’t otherwise meet the conditions within the definition of GUR, then it isnt GUR and you just play the ball as it lies.

(Ps. And it's not one of the 3 other types of abnormal course condition).

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Best to just read the definition of 'ground under repair'. If the committee have not defined it as GUR, and it doesn’t otherwise meet the conditions within the definition of GUR, then it isnt GUR and you just play the ball as it lies.

(Ps. And it's not one of the 3 other types of abnormal course condition).

Got it…though it does seem a bit unfair that an area of (what should be) turf that many balls will run to as it’s in the middle of the fairway - is not deemed n abnormal ground condition…as it most certainly is under any ‘normal’ understanding of the words.

I get that a group playing such as a medal can’t unilaterally declare it abnormal, but could, say, two players playing a match decide between themselves to give relief to a player whose ball is resting in such a damaged area.

 

[rulie]

Got it…though it does seem a bit unfair that an area of (what should be) turf that many balls will run to as it’s in the middle of the fairway - is not deemed n abnormal ground condition…as it most certainly is under any ‘normal’ understanding of the words.

I get that a group playing such as a medal can’t unilaterally declare it abnormal, but could, say, two players playing a match decide between themselves to give relief to a player whose ball is resting in such a damaged area.

Match play- out of ignorance of the Rules, they could decide to do so. The player whose ball is involved can take free relief without any agreement from the opponent. Just tell the opponent what you’re doing and do it. If the opponent disagrees, he can advise you that he is going to ask the Committee for a later ruling.

 

[nickjdavis]

Got it…though it does seem a bit unfair that an area of (what should be) turf that many balls will run to as it’s in the middle of the fairway - is not deemed n abnormal ground condition…as it most certainly is under any ‘normal’ understanding of the words.

I get that a group playing such as a medal can’t unilaterally declare it abnormal, but could, say, two players playing a match decide between themselves to give relief to a player whose ball is resting in such a damaged area.

...and that the trouble when folks discuss rules and try to apply dictionary definitions to terms that have their own definitions within the rules of golf.

At the end of the day the best thing you can do is make representations to your committee to consider/assess the rough area and get the greenkeeping staff to mark it accordingly. Otherwise we end up with different groups of golfers applying different standards of assessment of what is normal and what is not.

 

[Slab]

Does make you wonder what ‘went wrong’ in order for so much damage to occur and not already be marked as GUR by the time comps and many players are coming through

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Does make you wonder what ‘went wrong’ in order for so much damage to occur and not already be marked as GUR by the time comps and many players are coming through

Poor. It seems to have happened in the prep for the club champs. A good few patches (I’ll not exaggerate, but biggest maybe 18”-20” square) in a couple of mower strips where all the grass has gone - and it’s down to the underlying sandy soil. Mowers too low or cut being done too quickly and mowers bouncing? dunno. Questions have been asked by many. Not really acceptable. There may be a very good and reasonable explaination.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Match play- out of ignorance of the Rules, they could decide to do so. The player whose ball is involved can take free relief without any agreement from the opponent. Just tell the opponent what you’re doing and do it. If the opponent disagrees, he can advise you that he is going to ask the Committee for a later ruling.

Can you do this in matchplay? I thought you had to decide the outcome on the hole you are playing or suspend the match and seek advice.

 

[Swango1980]

Can you do this in matchplay? I thought you had to decide the outcome on the hole you are playing or suspend the match and seek advice.

The player decides how he wishes to proceed and match continues. The opponent can say he'll ask the Committee afterwards to see if that was correct (making that claim when the incident occurs, timely manner). The result of the hole can then be corrected after, if the Player was wrong.

 

[clubchamp98]

Does make you wonder what ‘went wrong’ in order for so much damage to occur and not already be marked as GUR by the time comps and many players are coming through

Normally this can happen if the grass is wet and jams the blades.
It can rip the turf before you even notice.
Ones bad but it shouldn’t be more than one!

Broken shaft or bearings could be a lot of things.

 

[Steven Rules]

Can you do this in matchplay? I thought you had to decide the outcome on the hole you are playing or suspend the match and seek advice.

As Swango has said.

See 20.1b. For this scenario, as long as the ruling request has been made before either player makes a stroke to begin another hole then the match score can be adjusted later to reflect the ruling.

Note that in match play there is no right to play two balls in a doubtful Rules situation. That procedure applies only in stroke play.

You can have a short delay to seek help from a referee or the Committee (Rule 5.6a) but the duration of the pause is is not open ended and must not turn into an unreasonable delay.

 

[rosecott]

An area of fairway has been significantly damaged by mowers to the extent that the grass has been ripped up; by ‘significantly’ I mean multiple patches of up to a square yard each.

If the area is not marked as GUR and there is no known temporary LR indicating that relief from abnormal ground conditions is afforded, can players in a group playing a competition round unilaterally agree that, for a ball ending up of the area, abnormal ground condition applies. Does this depend upon the nature of the competition (players are in a match or players are in a medal scenario).

My default thought would be to play two balls - just wondering if there is anything more definitive.

How many times in my lifetime - a long time - have I heard "this should be GUR, I'm taking relief"?

 

[salfordlad]

Got it…though it does seem a bit unfair that an area of (what should be) turf that many balls will run to as it’s in the middle of the fairway - is not deemed n abnormal ground condition…as it most certainly is under any ‘normal’ understanding of the words.

I get that a group playing such as a medal can’t unilaterally declare it abnormal, but could, say, two players playing a match decide between themselves to give relief to a player whose ball is resting in such a damaged area.

I have sought an official view on those bolded words. The response: Provided the players do not agree to deliberately ignore a Rule or fail to apply a penalty they know applies, in a match players can resolve rules issues by agreement. Such agreement is binding even if later discovered to be wrong.

 

[Steven Rules]

That doesn't seem to provide any more insight than 20.1b(1).

 

[salfordlad]

That doesn't seem to provide any more insight than 20.1b(1).

Wholeheartedly agree and I think that is interesting in itself. I went back with follow ups but none were forthcoming. But as my original question was almost word-perfect to Swingit's question, I have shared.