A question for you.

[TheJezster]

Wow, complicated...

How about you just put it down to a lapse of judgement and carry on as you were ;-)

Hole halved in match play (if it was) etc

So much easier!

 

[jim8flog]

Wow, complicated...

How about you just put it down to a lapse of judgement and carry on as you were ;-)

Hole halved in match play (if it was) etc

So much easier!

because playing by the rules avoids arguments that might not have the correct outcome in the long run.

"Lets halve the hole" "no" says the weaker character. The stronger character badgers him in to submission because the weaker character does not want to cause a fuss etc etc

"lets play it as a halved match says the guy who would have lost the hole " not knowing any better " ok" says the guy who would have won the hole. He later finds out that he would have won the hole and hence the match etc etc as he seeks redress

 

[Colin L]

Wow, complicated...

How about you just put it down to a lapse of judgement and carry on as you were ;-)

Hole halved in match play (if it was) etc

So much easier!

As I said (I think), it is much easier in match play. The first player to play a wrong ball loses the hole. Doesn't come much simpler.
The complication in stroke play is that one played a wrong ball and the other an incorrectly substituted ball. What each had to do next after the mistakes had been discovered was different.

 

[Colin L]

Surely the ball that was substituted in the relief situation is no longer a wrongly substituted ball, it is simply being played from a wrong place 14-7 rather than 6.3?

I've just remembered I was going to come back to this. This is how I see it.

B's action in lifting and dropping the other ball did not actually relate to taking relief ; it related to his ball in play which at the time of his lifting the ball from the temporary green was on the main green where it had been put by A. Where he picked up the other ball from doesn't matter and its being on a temporary green is only relevant in that it caused B to lift and drop it rather than play it - an incorrect substitution rather than a wrong ball. B made a stroke at an incorrectly substituted ball in breach of Rule 6.3b(3), got a 2 stroke penalty and had to continue with the substituted ball, his original ball now being out of play.

An incorrect substitution might be made in the correct place or in a wrong place. If in a wrong place, that is a secondary consideration and covered by reference to 1.3c(4) which explicitly deals with an incorreclty substituted ball that is played from a wrong place, confirming that there is a 2 stroke penalty in total.

 

[duncan mackie]

I've just remembered I was going to come back to this. This is how I see it.

B's action in lifting and dropping the other ball did not actually relate to taking relief ; it related to his ball in play which at the time of his lifting the ball from the temporary green was on the main green where it had been put by A. Where he picked up the other ball from doesn't matter and its being on a temporary green is only relevant in that it caused B to lift and drop it rather than play it - an incorrect substitution rather than a wrong ball. B made a stroke at an incorrectly substituted ball in breach of Rule 6.3b(3), got a 2 stroke penalty and had to continue with the substituted ball, his original ball now being out of play.

An incorrect substitution might be made in the correct place or in a wrong place. If in a wrong place, that is a secondary consideration and covered by reference to 1.3c(4) which explicitly deals with an incorreclty substituted ball that is played from a wrong place, confirming that there is a 2 stroke penalty in total.

Thank you for the well reasoned explanation

 

[backwoodsman]

I've just remembered I was going to come back to this. This is how I see it.

B's action in lifting and dropping the other ball did not actually relate to taking relief ; it related to his ball in play which at the time of his lifting the ball from the temporary green was on the main green where it had been put by A. Where he picked up the other ball from doesn't matter and its being on a temporary green is only relevant in that it caused B to lift and drop it rather than play it - an incorrect substitution rather than a wrong ball. B made a stroke at an incorrectly substituted ball in breach of Rule 6.3b(3), got a 2 stroke penalty and had to continue with the substituted ball, his original ball now being out of play.

An incorrect substitution might be made in the correct place or in a wrong place. If in a wrong place, that is a secondary consideration and covered by reference to 1.3c(4) which explicitly deals with an incorreclty substituted ball that is played from a wrong place, confirming that there is a 2 stroke penalty in total.

Aahh haaa! So the wrong green was a red herring after all.

If I'm reading Colin's above correctly, why he picked it up seems not revelvant - just that he did pick it up, then dropped it and played a stroke at it. . The fact he thought he was doing the correct thing on a temp green is neither here nor there. Could have been any ball, anywhere on the course?

 

[Colin L]

I'll defend my saying it wasn't a red herring . Yes, in terms of my incorrectly substituting a ball it didn't matter where I got the ball from - somewhere on the course, my pocket, my bag - but it was only because the ball was on the temporary green that I lifted it in the first place. Otherwise I would have just played it. It made the difference between a wrong ball and an incorrectly substituted one.

What it doesn't make a difference to is that the person who always marks his ball very carefully and checks it before playing and pontificates on this very forum about the importance of doing so, put his brain into reverse and had to pay a 2 stroke penalty for proving that he is a senior.

 

[rulefan]

Name them and shame them and hang them high pour encourager les autres

 

[Colin L]

I hope self-confession saved me from a hanging.

 

[chrisd]

I hope self-confession saved me the from a hanging.

As someone who's probably had more penalties for playing a wrong ball than any other offence I'm in no position to judge 😁

 

[Colin L]

As someone who's probably had more penalties for playing a wrong ball than any other offence I'm in no position to judge 😁

Slow learner, then?

 

[Sharktooth]

You think that’s bad? Two old German boys let me play thru yesterday when they were looking for a ball on the 2nd. When I was chipping, one old boy wandered off with my trolley thinking it was his!