A question for you.

[Colin L]

Here are some questions for you resulting from a momentary lapse of concentration this morning in our seniors roll-up (we do have to justify the title, you know).

In a stroke play game, A and B play towards a green and land in the area short of the main green where there is a temporary green (not in use). One ball is not on the temporary green; the other is. Player A pitches the ball that is not on the temporary green up on to the the main green. B lifts the ball that is on the temporary green, establishes his NPR and drops the ball correctly. He too pitches up on to the main green. A goes to putt and realises he did not play his own ball. B looks at the ball he played and sure enough the two old farts had played each others ball.

Question 1: Under the current Rules, how should they proceed and what penalties, if any are involved?
Question 2: Under the 2019 Rules, how should they proceed and what penalties, if any are involved?
Question 3: Had it been match play, what would be the outcome
(a) under today's Rules
(b) under the 2019 Rules.

Rulefan, Rulie, Duncan and Atticus are not eligible to answer on the grounds that they know too much.

Ok, I should confess: I was Player B of the two dozy old farts.

 

[williamalex1]

Both players sent to Specsavers immediately.

 

[Imurg]

Shoot them both

 

[2blue]

I'll start it off.... oh no I won't as still trying to get my head around the new 'simplification' ...… Good one Duncan

 

[upsidedown]

1, Both get two shot penalty and must then play from original position
2, Can see the new rule but unsure , cant see a penalty and play as their ball lies ?
3, A loses hole in both scenarios

 

[duncan mackie]

This happens quite frequently! The other, more common, version is where A plays his second from the rough and B is a little further down on the fairway with a preferred lie....

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Q1. Both receive 2 Stroke penalty and replay the stroke from the last correct position.

Q2. Play it as it lies or take relief as per the rules, no strokes added.

Q3. (A) First to play loses hole
(B) First to play receives 2 stroke penalty

 

[duncan mackie]

This isn't going to end well....🤔

 

[rulefan]

3, A loses hole in both scenarios

"In a stroke play game, ........"

 

[Colin L]

"In a stroke play game, ........"

Question 3 asked about the situation in match play.

 

[2blue]

I'll start it off.... oh no I won't as still trying to get my head around the new 'simplification' ...… Good one Duncan

OK... now ready...ish……...
Question 1: Under the current Rules, - both get a 2 shot penalty. then play their ball from original position
Question 2: Under the 2019 Rules, - No penalty, then play their ball from original position with any relief.
Question 3: Had it been match play, what would be the outcome
(a) Under the current Rules - 1st to error losses hole. If 1st error not known then no penalty & go back & use own ball from original position.
(b) under the 2019 Rules. - 1st to error losses hole. If 1st error not known then playout hole with exchanged balls (guess that means the other guys you each hit in error)…… God this is not clear or is it just me?

 

[3offTheTee]

Is there a local rule for the ball to be lifted if on a temporary green?

 

[YandaB]

Q1: Both get 2 shot penalty and play their balls from the original positions (best estimate).
Q2: Both get the General Penalty (2 shots) and play their balls from the original positions (best estimate).
Q3: Player A loses hole in both scenarios

So basically, no changes to the rule as far as I can see.

 

[upsidedown]

Ah ha admendeding my answer for question 2 in that they both get a two shot penalty and must correct the mistake by continuing play with the original ball by playing it as it lies or taking relief under the rules

 

[YandaB]

:-( need to amend my #2 answer as per upsidedown
Also need to scratch the comment about nothing changing

 

[rulefan]

Question 3 asked about the situation in match play.

Oops. As I was told I couldn't answer, I didn't bother reading it all.

 

[rulefan]

Is there a local rule for the ball to be lifted if on a temporary green?

A temporary green is a Wrong Green if not being used at the time. A ball on a Wrong Green must be lifted and dropped

 

[backwoodsman]

Q1. Current rules . Both players played a wrong ball so get a two shot penalty and must correct the mistake
Q2. New rules. Both players played a wrong ball - so get the "general penalty" - which is still 2 shots for stroke play. And must correct the mistake

If it had been match play then the first player to play the wrong ball would have lost the lost the hole under both set of rules - only difference is that the new rules call it the general penalty - which for matchplay is (still) loss of hole. Under the new rules, only in the (to me) bizarre circumstance of not knowing who played the wrong ball first would the hole be determined by the scores achiever with the balls as played

 

[backwoodsman]

Ps: as far as i am aware, the lifting & dropping from the temporary green is a red herring - in that it was a correct procedure, and the breach of rules only occurred when a stroke was made at it as a wrong ball. And "correcting the mistake" as I referred to above, is playing the right ball from its original position - ie the position it was in before the mistake was made.

 

[3offTheTee]

A temporary green is a Wrong Green if not being used at the time. A ball on a Wrong Green must be lifted and dropped

Far be it from me to query anything you say RF.

However:
A temporary putting green for a hole is typically part of the general area when it is not in use, but the Committee may wish to clarify its status or declare it to be a wrong green.



The term here is may but I naturally am open to correction