A Blonde Moment

[Gazcobain]

Playing a bounce game with my mates tonight. On the 17th green I marked my ball and lifted as normal. When I was wiping it, it fell out of my hand but before I could pick it up one of our crew asked me for help finding his ball. My ball landed about three yards from my marker.

Upon returning to play my shot, I had a complete idiotic moment and just played the ball from where it had landed! My marker was still on the ground and as soon as the ball had left my putter I shouted about my mistake, got the boy tending the flag to kick me it back and then played it from the marked position.

What's the ruling on this? Two-stroke penalty? The rules aren't very clear as they talk about when markers are moved, but my marker was still on the ground so I was able to play it from the exact position.

Cheers

 

[atticusfinch]

I don't know what a bounce game is, but if it is stroke play this is the rule.

c. Stroke Play

If a competitor makes a stroke from a wrong place, he incurs a penalty of two strokes under the applicable Rule. He must play out the hole with the ball played from the wrong place, without correcting his error, provided he has not committed a serious breach (see Note 1).

If a competitor becomes aware that he has played from a wrong place and believes that he may have committed a serious breach, he must, before making a stroke on the next teeing ground, play out the hole with a second ball played in accordance with the Rules. If the hole being played is the last hole of the round, he must declare, before leaving the putting green, that he will play out the hole with a second ball played in accordance with the Rules.

Because you did not do these things you are disqualified.

If it is match play you lose the hole when playing from the wrong place.

Rule 20-7.

 

[rulefan]

Because you did not do these things you are disqualified.

"then played it from the marked position." sounds like the second para.

 

[atticusfinch]

Agreed, doh. Thought not fully technically correct, his heart was in the right place. Would that be enough to avoid DQ?

(What is a bounce game?)

 

[duncan mackie]

Agreed, doh. Thought not fully technically correct, his heart was in the right place. Would that be enough to avoid DQ?

(What is a bounce game?)

colloquialism for non competition round; game with mates.

 

[Colin L]

A "bounce" game is a non-competition game - a social game. These can still be fiercely competitive!

Stroke play. I don't quite go along with playing again from the marked position as coming under para 2 for these reasons. He played from a wrong place and is required to play out the hole with that ball . If there is a serious breach, he is required to play out the hole with a second ball and should have two scores to be decided between. He did hole out with the ball he had played from the wrong place, thus complying with the requirements of para 1.

So, what was his score with that ball? Let's say he reached the green in 2. He played his 3rd shot from a wrong place and picks up 2 penalty strokes - score now 5. He then lifts his ball and plays his 6th stroke from where he should have played previously. He has breached R20-1 by lifting and not marking and not replacing and picks up a further 2 penalty strokes - score now 8. His final score will be 8 + the putts he then takes to hole the ball. In short he has twice played from a wrong place and accrued 4 penalty strokes.

Unless his first putt grossly overshot the hole (a cross reference to another forum ), putting from the original mark would likely be disadvantageous and not a serious breach.

In match play, as said, he lost the hole the first time he played from a wrong place.

 

[Imurg]

In a proper bounce game he'd have played again from the correct place, had to endure massive amounts of stick for the rest of the round and then been first to the bar regardless of who won!

 

[Colin L]

In a proper bounce game he'd have played again from the correct place, had to endure massive amounts of stick for the rest of the round and then been first to the bar regardless of who won!

Further education in our ways for our transatlantic friend.

 

[MashieNiblick]

A "bounce" game is a non-competition game - a social game. These can still be fiercely competitive!

Stroke play. I don't quite go along with playing again from the marked position as coming under para 2 for these reasons. He played from a wrong place and is required to play out the hole with that ball . If there is a serious breach, he is required to play out the hole with a second ball and should have two scores to be decided between. He did hole out with the ball he had played from the wrong place, thus complying with the requirements of para 1.

So, what was his score with that ball? Let's say he reached the green in 2. He played his 3rd shot from a wrong place and picks up 2 penalty strokes - score now 5. He then lifts his ball and plays his 6th stroke from where he should have played previously. He has breached R20-1 by lifting and not marking and not replacing and picks up a further 2 penalty strokes - score now 8. His final score will be 8 + the putts he then takes to hole the ball. In short he has twice played from a wrong place and accrued 4 penalty strokes.

Unless his first putt grossly overshot the hole (a cross reference to another forum ), putting from the original mark would likely be disadvantageous and not a serious breach.

In match play, as said, he lost the hole the first time he played from a wrong place.

Excellent. Not a Rule I am familiar with and good to have that clarified. Always seems harsh when the Rules ping you again even when you are trying to do the right thing. Just shows that it is always good to have a rule book handy and check things and that intuition of what's "right" or seems "fair" can often let you down.

 

[Colin L]

I had a nagging feeling there was a Decision on this one. It's 20-7c/2



http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-20/#d20-7c-2

 

[MashieNiblick]

I had a nagging feeling there was a Decision on this one. It's 20-7c/2



http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-20/#d20-7c-2

I found that when I posted but you nailed it so completely I didn't think it was worth mentioning!

 

[backwoodsman]

A question.

Rule 20-7 starts "A player has played from a wrong place if he makes a stroke at his ball in play..."

Given that the ball had been marked and lifted, and accidentally dropped - was the ball actually in play? Marking and lifting had taken it out of play, so the quesion is whether the accidental dropping dropping had put it back in play - even though its true position was still marked.

(If it was in play, how would he have been able pick it up and put it back on its mark if he hadn't had the blonde moment?)

 

[CMAC]

A question.

Rule 20-7 starts "A player has played from a wrong place if he makes a stroke at his ball in play..."

Given that the ball had been marked and lifted, and accidentally dropped - was the ball actually in play? Marking and lifting had taken it out of play, so the quesion is whether the accidental dropping dropping had put it back in play - even though its true position was still marked.

(If it was in play, how would he have been able pick it up and put it back on its mark if he hadn't had the blonde moment?)

good question- does that mean his next shot was actually regarded as practicing on the green before the hole was completed so would that be DQ if in a medal?

 

[williamalex1]

good question- does that mean his next shot was actually regarded as practicing on the green before the hole was completed so would that be DQ if in a medal?

Ithought you could play the hole out with 2 balls and ask the correct decision after , 3-3.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Ithought you could play the hole out with 2 balls and ask the correct decision after , 3-3.

I think you can if you declare it first, believe it is called equity.

 

[backwoodsman]

good question- does that mean his next shot was actually regarded as practicing on the green before the hole was completed so would that be DQ if in a medal?

The reasoning is that if the ball became in play after being accidentally dropped, then the ball was indeed played from a wrong place. But if by being marked and accidentally dropped, it had not been put into play (which I think would be the case - see definition of ball in play), then the putt made with the ball would have a stroke at a wrong ball. Same 2 shot penalty, but the procedure to follow thereafter would be different -ie stroke cancelled and the correct ball played (from correct place). Hence the question - if accidentally dropped, is the ball back in play?

 

[Colin L]

Thanks. That's a very good point. Decision 15/4 supports that ruling.
http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-15/#d15-4

Also, although in a different context, Decision 20-4/2 says this:
The ball is not considered to be in play until it is repositioned with the intention of replacing the ball as required by Rule 16-1b.

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-20/#d20-4-2


I'd overlooked the accidental dropping of the ball. What I said would apply to a ball intentionally placed in the wrong place (e.g. when forgetting you had marked away from the ball).

 

[Colin L]

I'd overlooked the accidental dropping of the ball. What I said would apply to a ball intentionally placed in the wrong place (e.g. when forgetting you had marked away from the ball).

Dearie me, what that should say is that it applied to a ball intentionally placed but in the wrong place.

 

[backwoodsman]

Thanks. That's a very good point. Decision 15/4 supports that ruling.
http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-15/#d15-4

Also, although in a different context, Decision 20-4/2 says this:
The ball is not considered to be in play until it is repositioned with the intention of replacing the ball as required by Rule 16-1b.

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-20/#d20-4-2


I'd overlooked the accidental dropping of the ball. What I said would apply to a ball intentionally placed in the wrong place (e.g. when forgetting you had marked away from the ball).

Colin, Thanks. That's the bit I was looking for. I knew it had to be there somewhere - otherwise if you happened to drop a lifted ball by mistake, you'd be somewhat stymied about picking it up again.

 

[hovis]

You think thats a blonde moment? I tapped my marker down with my putter and walked off the green. At this point i realised my marker was stuck to my putter. Doh