3 minutes to find ball

[Tashyboy]

Letter of the law if you know full well that it was 3 mins and 10 seconds (because somebody was timing it), then you can't in good faith, you have to keep walking back to the tee. If you didn't time it exactly however, you'd have no idea it was 3 min 10 or 2 min 50, so in that case I think most people would happily play it.

At my club I've never yet played with anyone who timed the 3 minutes on a watch, so if this happened I'd always give them the benefit of the doubt to play it.

Edit: In LT's example, having walked all the way back to the tee, hit another one, then found the original when you come back, that would obviously be well outside the 3 minutes so you couldn't really play that in good faith.

At the time we carried on playing the found ball. It seemed logical to hit a ball straight away than walk back to tee when four guys were waiting on it, either let them through or not. For pace of play and keeping an eye on the clock he played it and no one complained. Odd thing is when I suggested he plays a provisional he had given up hope and was on his way back. Like you said we never really had any idea how long we were looking but it wasn't an eternity
( remember the 5 min thread a few years ago 😂). When we finished the hole/ round he said 40 points. We asked is that what we as a team scored on the back nine. He said no my score. We didn't realise he was playing that well. He won the individual comp.

 

[Pin-seeker]

Do people really get a stop watch out and time it?

Personally I have a quick look and if I can’t see it that’s it.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

For timing purposes it's when it's spotted. You have additional time for identification.

This is because the ball may be found by someone other than the player but only he can identify it.

And if I may ask a little tangential question at this point. My shot is poor and likely to have ended in grim situation. I hit a provisional and the provisional is good (I note that if I was confident that I would not hit an equally poor - or worse - shot with a second ball I would put a new ball in play rather than a provisional); I decide that I'd rather not find the original ball and walk towards my provisional saying I'm not going to bother looking for my original; before I get to my provisional a playing companion blurts out that he can see a ball in the area my original disappeared; I must go to that ball and identify it as mine or not, and if it is mine I must play it. Daggers glared at playing companion...! Also if I pretend I didn't hear what my playing companion said, what happens if I go to my provisional (sitting in a position past the spot my original may was hit) and I play it?

 

[duncan mackie]

Do people really get a stop watch out and time it?

Personally I have a quick look and if I can’t see it that’s it.

As has been well evidenced there are those for whom having the odd extra few minutes and winning the trophy are important one way, and those the other. The great thing about a stopwatch is that it removes all the subjectivity!

 

[duncan mackie]

And if I may ask a little tangential question at this point. I hit a provisional and the provisional is good; I decide that I'd rather not find the original ball and walk towards my provisional saying I'm not going to look for my original; before I get to my provisional a playing companion blurts out that he can see a ball in the area my original disappeared; I must go to that ball and identify it as mine or not, and if it is mine I must play it. Daggers glared at playing companion...! Also if I pretend I didn't hear what my playing companion said, what happens if I go to my provisional (sitting in a position past the spot my original may was hit) and I play it?

Why you keep heading off in every direction beats me - and you did post recently that you had spent time looking through the new rules as well; why not look this one up?
Yes you must identify it if found in a timely manner, if yours it's not lost.
If you pretend you didn't hear him you are a cheat and are playing the wrong game (so the rules don't matter to you). Edit - i should probably add that if you simply refuse to identify it and continue with the provisional you have played a wrong ball if it (somehow) subsequently becomes identified as your original ball etc etc
If you didn't hear him and continued with your provisional it would depend on what happened when he subsequently made the position clear; if you then identified it and continued with it, picking up your provisional, I would rule no penalty (but I'm not sure what rule I would be ruling under, or if I'm correct! - 1-4 has now gone 🤔

 

[robinthehood]

At the time we carried on playing the found ball. It seemed logical to hit a ball straight away than walk back to tee when four guys were waiting on it, either let them through or not. For pace of play and keeping an eye on the clock he played it and no one complained. Odd thing is when I suggested he plays a provisional he had given up hope and was on his way back. Like you said we never really had any idea how long we were looking but it wasn't an eternity
( remember the 5 min thread a few years ago 😂). When we finished the hole/ round he said 40 points. We asked is that what we as a team scored on the back nine. He said no my score. We didn't realise he was playing that well. He won the individual comp.

Oof are you saying he won despite you knowing he actually played a wrong ball on one of the holes? Did he score on that hole.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Why you keep heading off in every direction beats me - and you did post recently that you had spent time looking through the new rules as well; why not look this one up?
Yes you must identify it if found in a timely manner, if yours it's not lost.
If you pretend you didn't hear him you are a cheat and are playing the wrong game (so the rules don't matter to you). Edit - i should probably add that if you simply refuse to identify it and continue with the provisional you have played a wrong ball if it (somehow) subsequently becomes identified as your original ball etc etc
If you didn't hear him and continued with your provisional it would depend on what happened when he subsequently made the position clear; if you then identified it and continued with it, picking up your provisional, I would rule no penalty (but I'm not sure what rule I would be ruling under, or if I'm correct! - 1-4 has now gone 🤔

I know the answer to the original point - in fact that wasn't actually my question - I know I must play the ball if indeed it is mine - even although I'd rather it hadn't been spotted. Indeed that is exactly what I did.

My question was more around what would happen if I pretended I hadn't heard - or if indeed I had not heard. It is hypothetical based upon what did actually happen to me couple of weekends back. You are quite correct - I would be cheating if I pretended that I had not heard - and I abhor cheats. With the last sentence of your reply you have however answered my question

 

[Pin-seeker]

As has been well evidenced there are those for whom having the odd extra few minutes and winning the trophy are important one way, and those the other. The great thing about a stopwatch is that it removes all the subjectivity!

Yeah I just play for fun.

 

[Orikoru]

At the time we carried on playing the found ball. It seemed logical to hit a ball straight away than walk back to tee when four guys were waiting on it, either let them through or not. For pace of play and keeping an eye on the clock he played it and no one complained. Odd thing is when I suggested he plays a provisional he had given up hope and was on his way back. Like you said we never really had any idea how long we were looking but it wasn't an eternity
( remember the 5 min thread a few years ago 😂). When we finished the hole/ round he said 40 points. We asked is that what we as a team scored on the back nine. He said no my score. We didn't realise he was playing that well. He won the individual comp.

To be honest even if I had a feeling someone had taken 3 mins 10 secs to find their ball, I'd give them a benefit of the doubt and tell them to crack on with it. Because I think that's the decent thing to do. Imagine sending someone back to the tee because your stopwatch says they found it 10 seconds late. I couldn't live like that, and I wouldn't want to play with anyone who was like that. As @Pin-seeker said - we play this game for fun!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

To be honest even if I had a feeling someone had taken 3 mins 10 secs to find their ball, I'd give them a benefit of the doubt and tell them to crack on with it. Because I think that's the decent thing to do. Imagine sending someone back to the tee because your stopwatch says they found it 10 seconds late. I couldn't live like that, and I wouldn't want to play with anyone who was like that. As @Pin-seeker said - we play this game for fun!

Do you mean following the rules ? What else would you let them off with ?

Yep it’s a fun game but many on here play competitions and when in those competitions everyone must follow the rules and use their own integrity to self police themselves and also police their fellow competitors.

 

[robinthehood]

To be honest even if I had a feeling someone had taken 3 mins 10 secs to find their ball, I'd give them a benefit of the doubt and tell them to crack on with it. Because I think that's the decent thing to do. Imagine sending someone back to the tee because your stopwatch says they found it 10 seconds late. I couldn't live like that, and I wouldn't want to play with anyone who was like that. As @Pin-seeker said - we play this game for fun!

Tbf i don't have a dedicated timer but I do look at my watch which has minutes and seconds so it's easy to see 3 mins. If it's time up then that's it, if a player finds it after then I'd not be agreeing they can play it.

 

[Pin-seeker]

Do you mean following the rules ? What else would you let them off with ?

Yep it’s a fun game but many on here play competitions and when in those competitions everyone must follow the rules and use their own integrity to self police themselves and also police their fellow competitors.

Jeeez chill out Phil,why does that mean that he’d let them “get away” with anything else?

How often would you say that you get your Stop watch & rule book out per round?

 

[Pin-seeker]

Tbf i don't have a dedicated timer but I do look at my watch which has minutes and seconds so it's easy to see 3 mins. If it's time up then that's it, if a player finds it after then I'd not be agreeing they can play it.

Maybe if you spent less time counting down the seconds & more helping to look for the ball 🤷‍♂️

 

[duncan mackie]

Jeeez chill out Phil,why does that mean that he’d let them “get away” with anything else?

How often would you say that you get your Stop watch & rule book out per round?

Whilst his choice of words was poor IMO, the key principle is that deliberately letting one person 'get away with a rules infringement' in a competition because you feel like it is completely the wrong way round. He should have trouble living that way - not the other.
In a match you are perfectly entitled to make such calls - it's only you that is affected.

But this is drifting off into Lounge discussion rather than rules questions.

 

[Orikoru]

Do you mean following the rules ? What else would you let them off with ?

Yep it’s a fun game but many on here play competitions and when in those competitions everyone must follow the rules and use their own integrity to self police themselves and also police their fellow competitors.

Haha I knew you'd come out with some bollocks like that. It's called being a decent human being at the end of the day. He took a few extra seconds, so what? Live a little. I can just imagine you standing there with your little stopwatch "mmmm no sorry you found that 3 seconds late, I don't make the rules". Christ.

 

[robinthehood]

Haha I knew you'd come out with some bollocks like that. It's called being a decent human being at the end of the day. He took a few extra seconds, so what? Live a little. I can just imagine you standing there with your little stopwatch "mmmm no sorry you found that 3 seconds late, I don't make the rules". Christ.

And it's little surprise to see you being uppity about the rules and how they are applied. If times up then times up, it's an easy rule to understand.... I certainly don't follow anýone with a stop watch but if I know the 3 mins has elapsed I'll stop searching whether that's for my ball or anyone else's. If it's subsequently found and you play on with it, then it's straight up cheating .

 

[Orikoru]

And it's little surprise to see you being uppity about the rules and how they are applied. If times up then times up, it's an easy rule to understand.... I certainly don't follow anýone with a stop watch but if I know the 3 mins has elapsed I'll stop searching whether that's for my ball or anyone else's. If it's subsequently found and you play on with it, then it's straight up cheating .

I read the rule though and it doesn't say EXACTLY 3 minutes. It could just as easily mean approximately three minutes. It certainly doesn't suggest you time it with a timer. 3 mins and 5 seconds say is approximately 3 mins in my book, to my best estimate. So to my mind the player hasn't broken a rule.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Haha I knew you'd come out with some bollocks like that. It's called being a decent human being at the end of the day. He took a few extra seconds, so what? Live a little. I can just imagine you standing there with your little stopwatch "mmmm no sorry you found that 3 seconds late, I don't make the rules". Christ.

Rules are there for a reason, dont like them then dont play.

 

[robinthehood]

I read the rule though and it doesn't say EXACTLY 3 minutes. It could just as easily mean approximately three minutes. It certainly doesn't suggest you time it with a timer. 3 mins and 5 seconds say is approximately 3 mins in my book, to my best estimate. So to my mind the player hasn't broken a rule.

🤣🤣🤣🤣 I wonder if the HMRC will let me use your formula for my next tax payment.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Haha I knew you'd come out with some bollocks like that. It's called being a decent human being at the end of the day. He took a few extra seconds, so what? Live a little. I can just imagine you standing there with your little stopwatch "mmmm no sorry you found that 3 seconds late, I don't make the rules". Christ.

And that’s the exact sort of response I would expect from you

Rules are rules - it’s as simple as that - 3 mins to search for the ball , find it after that and it’s a lost ball - simple.

A decent human being follows the rules and has integrity towards the game and their fellow golfers - deliberately allowing a break of the rules in a Comp for example is just cheating