3 minutes to find ball

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I've a cheap stopwatch attached to the trolley...3 min is proving challenging to estimate; even more so to estimate whether to set off across the fairway to help (basically by the time it's become obvious that the player is struggling to find their ball his time will probably be up as I get over to join in!

Just sing Elvis Costello's Oliver's Army to yourself - and when you are done that's the 3 minutes up

 

[cliveb]

I also reasoned that the clock stopped when he saw the ball which would have been earlier than when he identified it and called out.

So that begs the question: when is a player's ball formally considered to be found: when it's first spotted (as your comment sems to imply), or once it's been positively identified (which until now I'd have guessed to be the case)?

 

[duncan mackie]

So that begs the question: when is a player's ball formally considered to be found: when it's first spotted (as your comment sems to imply), or once it's been positively identified (which until now I'd have guessed to be the case)?

For timing purposes it's when it's spotted. You have additional time for identification.

This is because the ball may be found by someone other than the player but only he can identify it.

 

[Orikoru]

I wonder how closely this new rule is being adherred to across the country in club comps?

We have certainly witnessed the odd group playing in front of us def taking longer than 3 mins.

As has often been the case, it is generally the person who has lost their ball who decides that they have looked "for long enough" - unlikely that a regular playing partner within the group is going to state that 3 mins is up.

Rich

Well the truth is, in my experience anyway, that nobody ever times 3 minutes. We basically all wait for the feller who's ball it is to go "oh well, I give up, that's probably 3 minutes done anyway". I'm never going to stand there timing someone with a watch or whatever, I would feel like an absolute knob-end doing that.

Other questions about this rule:
If you get to the area where your ball is, but it is not your turn to play (i.e. let's say all three of your FCs are both further from the hole) can you look for as long as it takes them both to play? If the three of them playing takes 5 minutes, do you still have to stop looking after 3? Because again, without being timed, I just don't think anyway will ever own up to that one.

And also, if that's the case you're better off standing there with your eyes shut so that you can wait until the point when the other 3 chaps have had their shots, then they can come over to help you look and start your 3 minutes then so you have four pairs of eyes instead of one??

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Well the truth is, in my experience anyway, that nobody ever times 3 minutes. We basically all wait for the feller who's ball it is to go "oh well, I give up, that's probably 3 minutes done anyway". I'm never going to stand there timing someone with a watch or whatever, I would feel like an absolute knob-end doing that.

Other questions about this rule:
If you get to the area where your ball is, but it is not your turn to play (i.e. let's say all three of your FCs are both further from the hole) can you look for as long as it takes them both to play? If the three of them playing takes 5 minutes, do you still have to stop looking after 3? Because again, without being timed, I just don't think anyway will ever own up to that one.

And also, if that's the case you're better off standing there with your eyes shut so that you can wait until the point when the other 3 chaps have had their shots, then they can come over to help you look and start your 3 minutes then so you have four pairs of eyes instead of one??

You have three minutes to search for your ball when you get to the general area and commence the search - yes if you reach 3 mins you stop search and either walk back to the tee ( or place you last played your shot ) or you go and play your provisional.
( which you have no doubt played to save on time ) . Standing nearby and waiting for your playing companions to help you search goes against the reason for the change in time - to help slow play

And yep I have a timer on my trolley that I use when I start to search for my ball to ensure I don’t take longer than the rules

 

[Orikoru]

You have three minutes to search for your ball when you get to the general area and commence the search - yes if you reach 3 mins you stop search and either walk back to the tee ( or place you last played your shot ) or you go and play your provisional.
( which you have no doubt played to save on time ) . Standing nearby and waiting for your playing companions to help you search goes against the reason for the change in time - to help slow play

Ok but that's not to say that you can't delay your search until your FCs are ready to help you look? Obviously there's a clear reason to do so as you're more likely to find it, which off-set against the reason of 'slow play' sounds like a winner to me.

And yep I have a timer on my trolley that I use when I start to search for my ball to ensure I don’t take longer than the rules

Yeah that doesn't surprise me at all.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Ok but that's not to say that you can't delay your search until your FCs are ready to help you look? Obviously there's a clear reason to do so as you're more likely to find it, which off-set against the reason of 'slow play' sounds like a winner to me.

So imagine the group behind you watching you stood there watching your mates hit their shot and then when done come over and start to help you search for your ball - that would make it approx 5-10 mins for your group to play a shot - that would be very poor and a clear example of slow play and I guess could result in a delay of play penalty. Integrity is big in golf - if you have lost your ball go and start your search as soon as you get in the area. That’s what is expected of you

Yeah that doesn't surprise me at all.

I also carry a rule book , have the rule app on my phone as well - it ensures that I play within the rules for the integrity of the Comp and sport - that’s the way the self policing sport works.

 

[Orikoru]

So imagine the group behind you watching you stood there watching your mates hit their shot and then when done come over and start to help you search for your ball - that would make it approx 5-10 mins for your group to play a shot - that would be very poor and a clear example of slow play and I guess could result in a delay of play penalty. Integrity is big in golf - if you have lost your ball go and start your search as soon as you get in the area. That’s what is expected of you

Yeah I don't disagree with any of that, but if you're playing a big comp you still want to do anything that lessens your chance of losing the ball don't you. I'd just look for it on my own personally, I was clarifying that there's nothing to stop a guy waiting until his FCs can help him look is there?

I also carry a rule book , have the rule app on my phone as well - it ensures that I play within the rules for the integrity of the Comp and sport - that’s the way the self policing sport works.

I have the rule app on my phone as well, I've never once opened it during a round though, lol.

 

[Colin L]

As with all rules, it is the player's responsibillity to apply the rule regarding a ball lost ie it is up to each of us to time our own searches.

And no, you cannot delay starting your search until other players arrive. Rule 5.6a sees to that.

 

[Italian outcast]

What is the situation when you are looking for 2 possibly LBs by the same player
Happened 3 times yesterday to one of my PPs
Do you get aggregated allowances ?

 

[duncan mackie]

What is the situation when you are looking for 2 possibly LBs by the same player
Happened 3 times yesterday to one of my PPs
Do you get aggregated allowances ?

If they are in distinct locations you get a seperate allowance for each; if 2, or more, are in the same general area then you do not.

 

[Jamesbrown]

Yeah I don't disagree with any of that, but if you're playing a big comp you still want to do anything that lessens your chance of losing the ball don't you. I'd just look for it on my own personally, I was clarifying that there's nothing to stop a guy waiting until his FCs can help him look is there?


I have the rule app on my phone as well, I've never once opened it during a round though, lol.

You should take a look at rule 5.6a.

Undue delay. 1 stroke penalty. 1st breach.

 

[Orikoru]

You should take a look at rule 5.6a.

Undue delay. 1 stroke penalty. 1st breach.

There is no time stated for unreasonable delay. In this situation you're saying they would get a one stroke penalty for delaying the round by precisely 3 minutes? I can't see that happening.

 

[Jamesbrown]

There is no time stated for unreasonable delay. In this situation you're saying they would get a one stroke penalty for delaying the round by precisely 3 minutes? I can't see that happening.

Standing there waiting for players to help look, rather than look themselves, I would class as undue delay, and I guess the committee would make the decision.
If I was the group behind or in my group. I wouldn’t be impressed. I have to play my shot first before looking for anyone’s errant ball.

 

[Colin L]

There is no time stated for unreasonable delay. In this situation you're saying they would get a one stroke penalty for delaying the round by precisely 3 minutes? I can't see that happening.

I wouldn't try it. In the first place, other players are under no obligation to search for your ball. The two tests of unreasonable delay are a) was there a delay and b) if so was the delay unreasonable?
If you wait for other players to arrive to help with a search which you could have started immediately on reaching the area, the first test is met. There is a delay. Your purpose in doing so is to gain an advantage through something to which you have no particular right - the help of other players in searching for your ball. That is unreasonable.

 

[Tashyboy]

Played in our best two from four comp on Friday. On our 18th it was all to score and a longest drive. A PP smashed his ball over the hill. Got to said area and we spend 3 mins looking for it. I said to PP, "go and play another as its all to score". As him and another PP went walking back towards tee, the other PP was walking with him to go to his bag. He says its here. So what do you do, play it coz it's now found after 3 mins 10 secs. Or wave the next fourball through then wait til playing partner tees off with a provisional.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Played in our best two from four comp on Friday. On our 18th it was all to score and a longest drive. A PP smashed his ball over the hill. Got to said area and we spend 3 mins looking for it. I said to PP, "go and play another as its all to score". As him and another PP went walking back towards tee, the other PP was walking with him to go to his bag. He says its here. So what do you do, play it coz it's now found after 3 mins 10 secs. Or wave the next fourball through then wait til playing partner tees off with a provisional.

I've been there with my own ball in that type of situation. I found my first whilst walking up to my provisional, after the walk back to the tee to play said provisional. Tough bananas basically. You have 3 minutes to find it, if you find it after those 3 minutes it is tough. I think perhaps it is better not to find it than find it outside the allotted time, less bitterness .

Happy to be corrected but in your case it would be the latter option.

 

[Orikoru]

Played in our best two from four comp on Friday. On our 18th it was all to score and a longest drive. A PP smashed his ball over the hill. Got to said area and we spend 3 mins looking for it. I said to PP, "go and play another as its all to score". As him and another PP went walking back towards tee, the other PP was walking with him to go to his bag. He says its here. So what do you do, play it coz it's now found after 3 mins 10 secs. Or wave the next fourball through then wait til playing partner tees off with a provisional.

Letter of the law if you know full well that it was 3 mins and 10 seconds (because somebody was timing it), then you can't in good faith, you have to keep walking back to the tee. If you didn't time it exactly however, you'd have no idea it was 3 min 10 or 2 min 50, so in that case I think most people would happily play it.

At my club I've never yet played with anyone who timed the 3 minutes on a watch, so if this happened I'd always give them the benefit of the doubt to play it.

Edit: In LT's example, having walked all the way back to the tee, hit another one, then found the original when you come back, that would obviously be well outside the 3 minutes so you couldn't really play that in good faith.

 

[rulefan]

Edit: In LT's example, having walked all the way back to the tee, hit another one, then found the original when you come back, that would obviously be well outside the 3 minutes so you couldn't really play that in good faith.

If you play another ball from the tee without declaring it to be a provisional, it becomes the ball in play and the original is lost regardless of the time.

 

[Orikoru]

If you play another ball from the tee without declaring it to be a provisional, it becomes the ball in play and the original is lost regardless of the time.

Ok so same result then, just pedantry with regards to the reason.