2022 World Cup.

[Deleted member 15344]

Nobody has mentioned any of those players though have they, Rice is being discussed and as of yet he hasnt produced anything of note outside a West Ham shirt. He is a very good player who provided nothing goes wrong will no doubt have a very good career, but I imagine if he wants to win any club trophies of note he will need to leave West Ham in the same way the players you have listed needed to.

I’m not exactly sure what that list of players is about ?‍

rice is a very good player - could become a top player but needs to show at a top club and consistently against the best in Europe - Grealish is one who looked superb for Villa but still struggling to make that impact at City

Rice will prob go to Chelsea and there he can show if he really is that good

 

[Orikoru]

There's so much merit in having a real leader on the pitch. Kane is not a leader of men, he's not even Spurs's captain!

Don't want to be the Spurs fan defending Kane again, but honestly, why do you think he would have got the armband if he isn't a leader? The same was said about Beckham years ago and he turned out to be a superb captain, in my opinion anyway. Both of them lead by example with sheer determination. I think we need to get out of this DUUUR PASHUN!1 English mentality that you can't be a leader if you're not shouting and screaming constantly.

 

[Swango1980]

Not like you to take things wildly out of context - but if you wish you can find out where someone has said anything remotely close that

but here is the issue

Fans of certain clubs clearly don’t see what Henderson brings to a team - ( and it’s more than just shouting at someone )

Top class managers do understand that hence why he plays a lot for big team that wins trophies. He isn’t world class , he isn’t the greatest player to pull on a football shirt - he is a very good player who has proven that at the highest level. He did a very good job for the midfield yesterday. That’s been recognised by many in the game apart from the West Ham fan who clearly has an issue with Henderson

Now the same West Ham is also saying that Rice is one of the best in the World where as others are saying he is a very good player who will prob need to make a step up to show he is a top class player

Phillips is also another good player but has spent the season sat on the sidelines and Phillips is prob the player Henderson is for Liverpool

And the final detail is Henderson provided leadership to the middle of the park that previously was lacking a little

so the detail is always somewhere in the middle but what we do see is the standard london centre England fan who can’t see past their own players in their own small club - players who haven’t really produced beyond a small pond

Just out of interest, which top class managers are we talking about, and what teams has he won trophies for? He has won stuff for Liverpool, and I accept Klopp is a decent manager. What teams / managers are the others (I assume it is plural?). Clearly you do not mean Southgate, as I believe you've already dismissed him as being a top class manager.

Not trying to catch you out, I'm just can't remember too much of Henderson's success before he joined Liverpool, or his successes for his country.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Just out of interest, which top class managers are we talking about, and what teams has he won trophies for? He has won stuff for Liverpool, and I accept Klopp is a decent manager. What teams / managers are the others (I assume it is plural?). Clearly you do not mean Southgate, as I believe you've already dismissed him as being a top class manager.

Not trying to catch you out, I'm just can't remember too much of Henderson's success before he joined Liverpool, or his successes for his country.

Steve Bruce and his Sunderland young player of the year award clearly

 

[Bdill93]

Don't want to be the Spurs fan defending Kane again, but honestly, why do you think he would have got the armband if he isn't a leader? The same was said about Beckham years ago and he turned out to be a superb captain, in my opinion anyway. Both of them lead by example with sheer determination. I think we need to get out of this DUUUR PASHUN!1 English mentality that you can't be a leader if you're not shouting and screaming constantly.

He's the first name on every team sheet if he's fit. That's why. Every other position in this England team is up for debate but Harry Kane starts in everyone's team (except the deluded fans) He's been around a while and may lead by example - sure - but he's not his club captain so Spurs themselves clearly think someone else is better for the job.

There's far more to Hendo's game than shouting, he's no worse a footballer than Kalvin Phillips and certainly has better leadership skills. Also - what has Mount brought to the table this WC so far, because that's who I'm suggesting is dropped for Hendo - not Rice or Bellingham.

Its not all about throwing on a bunch of 20 year old talented players - its balancing everything out for the best outcome.

 

[pendodave]

I'd normally be entirely dismissive about a one off personal anecdote, but on balance I reckon it'll slightly raise the tone of this thread...
Anyhows, I have watched Henderson play in person once. Albeit against West Ham. Despite preconceptions, I was impressed by how he linked up defence and midfield and by the vertical (aka forward) nature of most of his passing. I left converted.

 

[GreiginFife]

France B team almost taking the lead there but for a tight call.

 

[D-S]

France B team almost taking the lead there but for a tight call.

I think it was Tunisia who had the goal disallowed.

 

[GreiginFife]

I think it was Tunisia who had the goal disallowed.

Yeah, I know

 

[BrianM]

France B team almost taking the lead there but for a tight call.

Some stat that ??

 

[BrianM]

The French Kit is absolutely A1 ????

 

[Orikoru]

He's the first name on every team sheet if he's fit. That's why. Every other position in this England team is up for debate but Harry Kane starts in everyone's team (except the deluded fans) He's been around a while and may lead by example - sure - but he's not his club captain so Spurs themselves clearly think someone else is better for the job.

There's far more to Hendo's game than shouting, he's no worse a footballer than Kalvin Phillips and certainly has better leadership skills. Also - what has Mount brought to the table this WC so far, because that's who I'm suggesting is dropped for Hendo - not Rice or Bellingham.

Its not all about throwing on a bunch of 20 year old talented players - its balancing everything out for the best outcome.

We gave Lloris the captaincy years ago in his prime as a bid to stop him leaving the club I believe. And you don't really strip your captain of the armband unless you're trying to make a point. I'm not a big fan of keepers as captains myself, and it's clear Kane is the proxy captain for the guys who are out on pitch! And if we replace Hugo and Kane hasn't left yet then he obviously will be.

Happy to leave Mount out, I'm just not sure why he's allergic to playing Foden as the number 10. He moaned and said it's because he doesn't play there for his club, yet he happily plays Trippier left back, and plays Maguire who sits on the bench for his club. Let's face it, when we play France he'll go back to 5 at the back plus Rice & Henderson holding anyway.

 

[Orikoru]

Yeah, I know

France are fielding their B team and Cameroon are the C team so Tunisia must be the D team.

 

[GreiginFife]

France are fielding their B team and Cameroon are the C team so Tunisia must be the D team.

Yeah, I realised that after seeing the France line up (joined the game after it started)

 

[Rlburnside]

I'd normally be entirely dismissive about a one off personal anecdote, but on balance I reckon it'll slightly raise the tone of this thread...
Anyhows, I have watched Henderson play in person once. Albeit against West Ham. Despite preconceptions, I was impressed by how he linked up defence and midfield and by the vertical (aka forward) nature of most of his passing. I left converted.

I also have only watched Spurs once since they moved to the new stadium ( a 3-0 win against Arsenal btw?)

I was impressed the way Dier shouted the whole match and marshaled the defense but soon realized just shouting in a match doesn’t make you a great player ?

 

[sunshine]

Just shows a lack of footballing knowledge when our "small ponders" who havent produced outside the small pond are

Lampard (record goal scoring midfielder)
Rio
Johnson
Carrick (fergie rated him)
J cole
Paul Ince
Tony cottee

Even Terry was part of the system until 14 I think

But yeah none of them performed

For the match against Senegal my starting XI would be:

Parkes
Johnson, Rio, Moore, Dicks
Rice, Brooking, Noble
J Cole, Cottee, Hurst

 

[Deleted member 21784]

For the match against Senegal my starting XI would be:

Parkes
Johnson, Rio, Moore, Dicks
Rice, Brooking, Noble
J Cole, Cottee, Hurst

Thought moore might be a bit tough now days but the rest could give it a good go..

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I'd normally be entirely dismissive about a one off personal anecdote, but on balance I reckon it'll slightly raise the tone of this thread...
Anyhows, I have watched Henderson play in person once. Albeit against West Ham. Despite preconceptions, I was impressed by how he linked up defence and midfield and by the vertical (aka forward) nature of most of his passing. I left converted.

That’s pretty much it - he is very much a link player , nothing flashy , nothing that’s stands out above peers but does a lot of unseen ugly work - he looks to dictate the intensity , when to press and when to sit and his organisation skills are superb. He was superb for Rodgers the year we nearly won it and many see him getting sent off as a big reason for us missing out that year and I thought when Klopp came then he might not last - but he has been excellent for us.

He isn’t a KBD or Bellingham or Gerrard etc - but he does a very good job - and yes being a vocal player is also part of it.

He has been a proper captain for us and still think he is better captain for England but can see why Kane gets it

 

[sunshine]

Don't want to be the Spurs fan defending again

Defending has been a problem all season for Spurs

 

[ColchesterFC]

Lets not get ahead of ourselves.

Hendo has won a prem and a champions league at the heart of one of the two best english teams over the last 5 years. Rice and Bellingham have won nothing. There something to be said about getting it over the line.

I'm not sure this argument stands up to scrutiny.

Djimi Traore has won a Champions League medal, and players such as Darron Gibson, Igor Stepanovs, Luke Chadwick and Jeremy Aliadiere have Premier League winners medals.

Michael Ballack, Pavel Nedved, Lilian Thuram, Zlatan Ibrahimovic and Ronaldo (the Brazilian one) have never won the Champions League. Gerrard, Kane, Suarez, Modric and Bale have never won the Premier League.

Winning stuff doesn't automatically make you a good or great player in just the same way that not winning stuff doesn't make you a bad player.