2022 World Cup.
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Deleted member 21784
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100% , he's gone next summer im 80% sure
Part of me wishes we would just let him run down his contract and get a few more seasons of the best player I'll see in a west ham shirt because we won't replace him for the money
Ironically I got a feeling him and / or Bellingham will end up at Liverpool
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Deleted member 15344
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he isn’t even the best Defensive Mid in the Prem let alone world football - he is a decent player with a decent engineer who does well in a small pond , he hasn’t stood out so far in the World Cup
He is a good player but it’s typical for some to blow it way over board.
Right now It should be Henderson with either Rice or Phillips and then Bellingham just ahead in a more forward role.
Rice and Phillips are decent players but neither have proven themselves yet - Phillips May when he plays more for City and Rice will need to move to a big club to play regularly in Champions League.
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Deleted member 21784
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In your opinion.
Rice would walk into any of the premier League teams right now
Especially Liverpool when they need new legs to play the way klopp wants.
The only team he would "struggle" to get in. Would be city because of their depth of talent but he would still play 30 plus premier League games a season for them
Anyone else he would be first team.
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
West Ham fan thinks West Ham players are the best - Classic.
Rice is a good player, he may one day be a great player - but I've yet to see anything from him that shows me what makes him so great when playing for England.
I believe Hendo is the talent to get us across the line. When were 1-0 down chasing the game Id want him on the pitch yelling and shouting. Ive heard zero commenst about Rice's leadership this world cup - Hendo plays one game and its all they talked about on the radio when I was driving to work this morning. Its a noticeable difference and we played better last night than we have all tournament.
Rlburnside
Challenge Tour Pro
I would agree about Bellingham who should be starting playing in front of the defensive two.
But we’re not going to agree about Henderson so I will leave it there ?
Swango1980
Well-known member
Is this the current conversation:
Most seem to agree Rice and Phillips are very good / promising players (that should probably be in the team when fit), but a Liverpool fan is quick to tell us that they are decent, but certainly not great and stand out players in this world cup.
On the other hand, most also seem to agree Henderson is, at best, a squad player and is not good enough to start for England. But, a Liverpool fan thinks he should, that he is one of England's finest, and he shouts at players really well.
We're all entitled to our opinion, but I suspect Liverpoolphil has some bias in his opinion. If Rice played for Liverpool, and Henderson played for Man Utd (or anyone but Liverpool), then Rice would be world class and Henderson a terrible player, long past it.
I'm not denying Henderson can do the dirty work if needed, and probably deserves his place in the squad (especially with Phillips having been out injured). But, he is a squad player (or should be in my opinion). He is nothing special at all. Rice and Phillips ahead of him all day long in the defensive midfield positions, and in the attacking midfield positions Henderson is firmly last compared to the other midfielders. In fact, I'd put some defenders in a more advanced midfield position before Henderson
Most seem to agree Rice and Phillips are very good / promising players (that should probably be in the team when fit), but a Liverpool fan is quick to tell us that they are decent, but certainly not great and stand out players in this world cup.
On the other hand, most also seem to agree Henderson is, at best, a squad player and is not good enough to start for England. But, a Liverpool fan thinks he should, that he is one of England's finest, and he shouts at players really well.
We're all entitled to our opinion, but I suspect Liverpoolphil has some bias in his opinion. If Rice played for Liverpool, and Henderson played for Man Utd (or anyone but Liverpool), then Rice would be world class and Henderson a terrible player, long past it.
I'm not denying Henderson can do the dirty work if needed, and probably deserves his place in the squad (especially with Phillips having been out injured). But, he is a squad player (or should be in my opinion). He is nothing special at all. Rice and Phillips ahead of him all day long in the defensive midfield positions, and in the attacking midfield positions Henderson is firmly last compared to the other midfielders. In fact, I'd put some defenders in a more advanced midfield position before Henderson
Orikoru
Tour Winner
I think the truth is in the middle somewhere - @pauljames87 is overdoing the Rice praise just a touch, but I do think he's a fantastic talent, he's better on the ball than a lot of people realise because he plays within himself a lot of the time. And if you're not hearing his name too much, for a defensive role that's normally no bad thing as it means he's doing his job quietly and efficiently. Now if you'd rather have Hendo because he rants and raves at his teammates all game, then that's up to you, each to their own and all that. Sounds a bit old-school to me, I'd rather have the better footballer. Rice is captain of his club as well at only 23 years of age so it's unlikely that he has no leadership qualities at all.
Pin-seeker
Well-known member
If Henderson played for any other club this wouldn’t even be dabated.
Everyone of their players are the best ?
Everyone of their players are the best ?
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
Is this the current conversation:
Most seem to agree Rice and Phillips are very good / promising players (that should probably be in the team when fit), but a Liverpool fan is quick to tell us that they are decent, but certainly not great and stand out players in this world cup.
On the other hand, most also seem to agree Henderson is, at best, a squad player and is not good enough to start for England. But, a Liverpool fan thinks he should, that he is one of England's finest, and he shouts at players really well.
We're all entitled to our opinion, but I suspect Liverpoolphil has some bias in his opinion. If Rice played for Liverpool, and Henderson played for Man Utd (or anyone but Liverpool), then Rice would be world class and Henderson a terrible player, long past it.
I'm not denying Henderson can do the dirty work if needed, and probably deserves his place in the squad (especially with Phillips having been out injured). But, he is a squad player (or should be in my opinion). He is nothing special at all. Rice and Phillips ahead of him all day long in the defensive midfield positions, and in the attacking midfield positions Henderson is firmly last compared to the other midfielders. In fact, I'd put some defenders in a more advanced midfield position before Henderson
I have no horse in this race as a Villa fan and I still think Hendo should be one of the 3.
Two others to compliment him - no issue at all who they are but Bellingham and Rice would be my preference - and Jude is an ex Blue nose! Phillips has barely kicked a ball all season, not a starter for me. He bored the life out of me in the Euros and never looks for a forward pass.
There's so much merit in having a real leader on the pitch. Kane is not a leader of men, he's not even Spurs's captain!
fundy
Ryder Cup Winner
France taking the opportunity to rest the majority of their best side
SteveW86
Head Pro
I see the footie thread is making a push again for the number 1 spot in the "my opinion is fact and therefore right" thread league again. It would probably be a good discussion if the West Ham fan was rooting for Hendo and the Liverpool fan was rooting for Rice.
I dont think any one doubts that the future of the England midfield will be based around Rice & Bellingham, with Phillips being the likely 3rd member from what I can see. But that is the future and this is now. Henderson offers experience and leadership skills that non of the others do, my midfield 3 would be Bellingham/Rice/Henderson for the Senegal game. Kane wont be dropped and I'd have Foden on the left and probably Saka on the right.
I dont think any one doubts that the future of the England midfield will be based around Rice & Bellingham, with Phillips being the likely 3rd member from what I can see. But that is the future and this is now. Henderson offers experience and leadership skills that non of the others do, my midfield 3 would be Bellingham/Rice/Henderson for the Senegal game. Kane wont be dropped and I'd have Foden on the left and probably Saka on the right.
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Deleted member 15344
Guest
Is this the current conversation:
Most seem to agree Rice and Phillips are very good / promising players (that should probably be in the team when fit), but a Liverpool fan is quick to tell us that they are decent, but certainly not great and stand out players in this world cup.
On the other hand, most also seem to agree Henderson is, at best, a squad player and is not good enough to start for England. But, a Liverpool fan thinks he should, that he is one of England's finest, and he shouts at players really well.
We're all entitled to our opinion, but I suspect Liverpoolphil has some bias in his opinion. If Rice played for Liverpool, and Henderson played for Man Utd (or anyone but Liverpool), then Rice would be world class and Henderson a terrible player, long past it.
I'm not denying Henderson can do the dirty work if needed, and probably deserves his place in the squad (especially with Phillips having been out injured). But, he is a squad player (or should be in my opinion). He is nothing special at all. Rice and Phillips ahead of him all day long in the defensive midfield positions, and in the attacking midfield positions Henderson is firmly last compared to the other midfielders. In fact, I'd put some defenders in a more advanced midfield position before Henderson
Not like you to take things wildly out of context - but if you wish you can find out where someone has said anything remotely close that
but here is the issue
Fans of certain clubs clearly don’t see what Henderson brings to a team - ( and it’s more than just shouting at someone )
Top class managers do understand that hence why he plays a lot for big team that wins trophies. He isn’t world class , he isn’t the greatest player to pull on a football shirt - he is a very good player who has proven that at the highest level. He did a very good job for the midfield yesterday. That’s been recognised by many in the game apart from the West Ham fan who clearly has an issue with Henderson
Now the same West Ham is also saying that Rice is one of the best in the World where as others are saying he is a very good player who will prob need to make a step up to show he is a top class player
Phillips is also another good player but has spent the season sat on the sidelines and Phillips is prob the player Henderson is for Liverpool
And the final detail is Henderson provided leadership to the middle of the park that previously was lacking a little
so the detail is always somewhere in the middle but what we do see is the standard london centre England fan who can’t see past their own players in their own small club - players who haven’t really produced beyond a small pond
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Deleted member 21784
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Considering we have produced some of the most decorated English players from our small pond it's not a bad pond ?
Do you even know where your pond is?
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Deleted member 29109
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Is shouting now considered an essential attribute for a leader on the pitch as it is a manager ?
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Deleted member 29109
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It’s a filthy puddle not a pond ?
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Deleted member 21784
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Just shows a lack of footballing knowledge when our "small ponders" who havent produced outside the small pond are
Lampard (record goal scoring midfielder)
Rio
Johnson
Carrick (fergie rated him)
J cole
Paul Ince
Tony cottee
Even Terry was part of the system until 14 I think
But yeah none of them performed
SteveW86
Head Pro
Nobody has mentioned any of those players though have they, Rice is being discussed and as of yet he hasnt produced anything of note outside a West Ham shirt. He is a very good player who provided nothing goes wrong will no doubt have a very good career, but I imagine if he wants to win any club trophies of note he will need to leave West Ham in the same way the players you have listed needed to.
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Deleted member 21784
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Fair maybe I misread. However back to what I said earlier we need to look PAST what players achieve at club to be oh look what they will achieve for country
All those mentioned above how well did they play for club? Add Beckham, Gerrard. Scholes, David seaman, sheringham , Owen
Etc etc
What did they do for England? Did we get over the line?
We came closer with a team full of not won much in 2021 ...
So let's move past this oh they are winners so must be good and play the best talents
I'll use Pickford as an example . Never going to win anything for club, first name on England team sheet and tbh wouldn't change him
pokerjoke
Money List Winner
Rice was superb in the Euros,he’s been steady in this World Cup and done his job well.
He’s 100% going to a bigger club very soon and could become a great for England in the future.
Henderson did a good job last night against a very weak midfield,Will or can he produce a big performance against a better team I’m not so sure,however he can still play a big part in the tournament.
I think Philips could get the nod in the quarterfinals.
France are resting players something I believe Southgate should have done especially Kane and Bellingham.
We definitely have the ammo to beat Senegal whoever plays imo.
He’s 100% going to a bigger club very soon and could become a great for England in the future.
Henderson did a good job last night against a very weak midfield,Will or can he produce a big performance against a better team I’m not so sure,however he can still play a big part in the tournament.
I think Philips could get the nod in the quarterfinals.
France are resting players something I believe Southgate should have done especially Kane and Bellingham.
We definitely have the ammo to beat Senegal whoever plays imo.
