10 Golf Myths

[Voyager EMH]

Which is more common among amateur golfers?
Three putting after leaving first putt short.
Three putting after hitting first putt too hard.

 

[rulie]

Which is more common among amateur golfers?
Three putting after leaving first putt short.
Three putting after hitting first putt too hard.

Just like being long or short are both misses, they are both three putts! Advice? Make more three footers!

 

[Klimski]

Which is more common among amateur golfers?
Three putting after leaving first putt short.
Three putting after hitting first putt too hard.

We'd have to ask stats guru Lou Stagner of Arccos. On long putts I personally see more bad results from over hitting it than under. But others here have claimed the opposite.

 

[Orikoru]

Which is more common among amateur golfers?
Three putting after leaving first putt short.
Three putting after hitting first putt too hard.

I personally I think it's rare that I leave a putt more than 3 feet short - even from distance. I'm more likely to hit one too hard and be 4 or 5 feet past. I could be misremembering though.

 

[D-S]

Which is more common among amateur golfers?
Three putting after leaving first putt short.
Three putting after hitting first putt too hard.

Absolutely no idea.

 

[rulie]

This thread should turn into its own myth, with mythical information!

 

[Voyager EMH]

Absolutely no idea.

Neither have I.
I was hoping someone would know.
I would like to know.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

Neither have I.
I was hoping someone would know.
I would like to know.

Google AI says:


“Three-putting after leaving the first putt short is more common among amateur golfers than hitting it too hard.
While both errors lead to three-putts, several data points and expert observations highlight why "short" is the more frequent culprit for high-handicap players:

Pro Tip: To reduce three-putts, focus on lag putting—trying to get the first putt into a 3-foot "gimme" circle around the hole. For amateurs, the most effective way to improve is by varying the length of the backswing to match the putt distance rather than trying to adjust the "hit" or speed of the hands. “

Edit: it only Gives detail for high handicap not full amateur breakdown across different handicap groups.

 

[Voyager EMH]

That leads me to conclude that three-putting is caused more by under-hitting than over-hitting.

"Never up, never in" would then be more often appropriate than, "Won't go in at that speed".

Both are appropriate when they are appropriate, but one more often than the other.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

That leads me to conclude that three-putting is caused more by under-hitting than over-hitting.

"Never up, never in" would then be more often appropriate than, "Won't go in at that speed".

Both are appropriate when they are appropriate, but one more often than the other.

I disagree completely with you. I’m more inclined with the pro tip of get a 3 foot radius rather to give a bigger target area on lag putting rather than just getting it past the hole.

 

[Voyager EMH]

I disagree completely with you. I’m more inclined with the pro tip of get a 3 foot radius rather to give a bigger target area on lag putting rather than just getting it past the hole.

But I'm not disagreeing with the pro tip.

I'm commenting on what is actually happening with most amateur golfers. They seem to be erring on being too short more often than too long.

I have made no comment on the best way to rectify this.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

But I'm not disagreeing with the pro tip.

I'm commenting on what is actually happening with most amateur golfers. They seem to be erring on being too short more often than too long.

I have made no comment on the best way to rectify this.

Perhaps I misread your comment. But certainly still don’t think the never up, never in is a good strategy for anything over 20ft amateurs simply aren’t good enough despite what many on here are saying you’d think they’re Ben Crenshaw

 

[harpo_72]

My view was never up never in only applied under certain circumstances. A pin position that drops away from you or is down hill or has a down hill past the hole was definitely a hole that to be respected regards pace. Likewise a hole that slopes to a side is always play for the drop and that is not necessarily the full distance of the hole..
The problem is generalisation and not respecting the situation .. I will now grab my coat as the comment I have made is a bit non committed and on the fence.

 

[Voyager EMH]

I've never thought of "Never up, never in" as a strategy.
I've always thought of it a a comment made to people when they leave a putt short.

The "myth" element would be if this comment was not appropriate.
But it does seem that it is more appropriate than an equal and opposite comment regarding putts that miss long. Although whatever that comment would be is seldom heard.
Errant long putts are less common that the short ones.

The error can be made when assessing the putt and/or in the execution of the putt. In both cases the more common error is short.

 

[Viewer]

99% of putts short of the hole don’t go in

100% of putts that go past the hole don’t go in

No ball that has ever been marked got further away from the hole

 

[IanM]

No Laying Up podcast had a q&a with a golf stats boffin recently. I only lasted about 10 minutes of it.

Dull dull dull, although some of you will love it. Go an knock yourselves out.

 

[Golf is fun]

Which is more common among amateur golfers?
Three putting after leaving first putt short.
Three putting after hitting first putt too hard.

The second putt is the differentiator.

Make rate	Tour player	Scratch	15 Handicap
>95%	3.5	2.5	<2
75%	5.5	5	3
50%	8	7.5	5
25%	15	13.5	9

I've just shared the key percentiles, but you can see the difference, to have a 50/50 chance of making the second putt the pro can leave it 8 feet short, but at this range the 15 handicapper only has a 25% chance of making it. If it's within 4 foor the pro is making it 9 times of out 10, but the amateur is only likely to make it somewhere around 6 times out of 10.

However what is interesting is that pros have a greater 3 putt percentage when long. The caveat is that typically when they miss long they leave the ball further from the hole though.

Starting distance	3 putt percentage if long	3 putt percentage if short
20	2.5%	1.2%
30	6%	4.1%
40	11%	8%

Interestingly contrary to what has been stated here, one of the reasons for the putts past the hole missing more is that seeing the line from the over direction typically adds more confusion to the read.

 

[harpo_72]

The second putt is the differentiator.

Make rate	Tour player	Scratch	15 Handicap
>95%	3.5	2.5	<2
75%	5.5	5	3
50%	8	7.5	5
25%	15	13.5	9

I've just shared the key percentiles, but you can see the difference, to have a 50/50 chance of making the second putt the pro can leave it 8 feet short, but at this range the 15 handicapper only has a 25% chance of making it. If it's within 4 foor the pro is making it 9 times of out 10, but the amateur is only likely to make it somewhere around 6 times out of 10.

However what is interesting is that pros have a greater 3 putt percentage when long. The caveat is that typically when they miss long they leave the ball further from the hole though.

Starting distance	3 putt percentage if long	3 putt percentage if short
20	2.5%	1.2%
30	6%	4.1%
40	11%	8%

Interestingly contrary to what has been stated here, one of the reasons for the putts past the hole missing more is that seeing the line from the over direction typically adds more confusion to the read.

This is a controversial response and I appreciate your deep dive, but fundamentally stats that actually include tour pros , pros and elite amateurs are only really comparable to each other but loosely.. the club golfer is a random all on his/her own and their performance is related to the quality of the golf course. We rave about the quality of the greens but go to a tour event and it’s a different level. Putting on perfect surfaces is a lot easy than rolling through worm casts, badly repaired pitch marks ( or not at all) .. just play your game keep your own stats and be honest about the conditions.
I remember playing in America and the fairways sat the ball up .. it was a different game and so easy compared to the rubbish English clubs offer up.

 

[Golf is fun]

This is a controversial response and I appreciate your deep dive, but fundamentally stats that actually include tour pros , pros and elite amateurs are only really comparable to each other but loosely.. the club golfer is a random all on his/her own and their performance is related to the quality of the golf course. We rave about the quality of the greens but go to a tour event and it’s a different level. Putting on perfect surfaces is a lot easy than rolling through worm casts, badly repaired pitch marks ( or not at all) .. just play your game keep your own stats and be honest about the conditions.
I remember playing in America and the fairways sat the ball up .. it was a different game and so easy compared to the rubbish English clubs offer up.

It's just data, make of it what you will.

I'm sure the course has some impact, I'd suspect the player has a lot more impact though. If you put a 15 handicapper on a tour setup and a pro at a local council owned course to get like for like data I suspect the relative difference would still be quite large.

I doubt there is a data set on it, but I whilst a worm cast or bump can knock a putt off line, it can also knock a badly read or struck putt back on line, so the luck factor can go both ways, and may actually benefit lower skilled players more than skilled players who get the right line more often. That's all hypothetical though.