Handicap manipulation - how to address

[fenwayrich]

My club held a Seniors Open 4BBB on Monday. Out of 96 pairs, the best score was a mere 43, on which there were 3 tied. It was set up as acceptable for handicapping under the new rules, and one player from each of the 3 pairs that tied has had the score added to their handicap record by the automatic system in place. Also a couple of people who were in pairs that scored 42. Looks like the new rule is now up and running. Doesn't help in other team formats though.

 

[rulefan]

Interesting results from the Brabazon qualifiers yesterday. Entry limit +2 at time of entry

Southern of 120 players 38 played to par
Midlands of 110 players 22 played to par
Northern of 116 players 12 played to par (very wet conditions)

 

[D-S]

As it is a Scratch event the CR relation to par at the courses would be useful for, as we all know, par is an arbitrary number.

 

[3offTheTee]

Interesting results from the Brabazon qualifiers yesterday. Entry limit +2 at time of entry

Southern of 120 players 38 played to par
Midlands of 110 players 22 played to par
Northern of 116 players 12 played to par (very wet conditions)

A lad from our place qualified on countback, just. Great modest lad and won a County singles @weekend 7 and 5!

 

[rulefan]

As it is a Scratch event the CR relation to par at the courses would be useful for, as we all know, par is an arbitrary number.

North 72.8 / 73
Midlands 72.3 / 71
South 71.5 / 72

See Correction above

 

[rulefan]

A lad from our place qualified on countback, just. Great modest lad and won a County singles @weekend 7 and 5!

Jack Hunter ?

 

[nickjdavis]

IMO the last bit is what should happen more often and for me there needs to be a way that all team or pairs open results are sent back to each club so HC secs have a better view of what their members are doing outside the club

A lot could be accomplished by local clubs just talking to each other...an informal chat amongst handicap secretarys once in a while.

It doesnt take a great deal of effort to identify who the "roaming nomad bandits" are...those players who join a club, play for a year, put modest scores in, clean up in open comps, and then move on to membership of another club and repeat the process.

 

[Swango1980]

A lot could be accomplished by local clubs just talking to each other...an informal chat amongst handicap secretarys once in a while.

It doesnt take a great deal of effort to identify who the "roaming nomad bandits" are...those players who join a club, play for a year, put modest scores in, clean up in open comps, and then move on to membership of another club and repeat the process.

I struggle to organise 4 people to play a 4BBB match in the winter league.

An informal chat between handicap secs might sound great, but good luck trying to organise it

 

[nickjdavis]

I struggle to organise 4 people to play a 4BBB match in the winter league.

An informal chat between handicap secs might sound great, but good luck trying to organise it

We have very good communication with other clubs local to us and in the past, have used said communication to good effect, to put a stop to the "activities" of a handful of "nomadic golfers" who would spend a year at a club, win a few things, move on to a new club....put three new cards in for handicap, get a new higher handicap, rinse that club for a few tin pots, move on and repeat.

If there is a genuine desire to stop such activities then it can be done with a little bit of effort....doesnt need to be regular meetings....just an agreement to keep other clubs aware of "stuff" that is suspicious when it is spotted.

 

[Swango1980]

We have very good communication with other clubs local to us and in the past, have used said communication to good effect, to put a stop to the "activities" of a handful of "nomadic golfers" who would spend a year at a club, win a few things, move on to a new club....put three new cards in for handicap, get a new higher handicap, rinse that club for a few tin pots, move on and repeat.

If there is a genuine desire to stop such activities then it can be done with a little bit of effort....doesnt need to be regular meetings....just an agreement to keep other clubs aware of "stuff" that is suspicious when it is spotted.

Certainly, if you are at a club who tends to organise several Open events a year, then I'd agree. It is very much in their interest to set up some sort of communications with all the local clubs that also run several Opens a year

 

[Arthur Wedge]

A lot could be accomplished by local clubs just talking to each other...an informal chat amongst handicap secretarys once in a while.

It doesnt take a great deal of effort to identify who the "roaming nomad bandits" are...those players who join a club, play for a year, put modest scores in, clean up in open comps, and then move on to membership of another club and repeat the process.

I guess it will depend on what area you are in , we don’t really have too many clubs and opens that people play in and we certainly don’t see people jumping from club to club - I think with the way clubs are these days a lot are full and have waiting lists so makes that harder


I think the issues are more around players that play in the “national KO’s” etc and then go fair distance to play in Opens

But certainly local clubs should also be highlighting to other clubs and even the county if there is someone they suspect

 

[IanM]

From the other thread, stop having daft prizes.

Remove the incentive. Proper golfers will still play an Open if the first prize was a voucher to defend next year and a dozen ProV1s.

You give away trips abroad and new drivers/bags etc, the "geezers" are on it like a shot.

 

[Swango1980]

From the other thread, stop having daft prizes.

Remove the incentive. Proper golfers will still play an Open if the first prize was a voucher to defend next year and a dozen ProV1s.

You give away trips abroad and new drivers/bags etc, the "geezers" are on it like a shot.

Do Opens with big prizes help justify charging larger entry fees. Although the prizes may cost more, because they attract more golfers paying higher fees, the club ultimately raise bigger amounts of money.

And, I suppose a key point is will be, regardless of prizes or not, these cheats will not vanish into this air. They play golf, enter opens, and will still try and con the system. I doubt they'll give up golf and try and cheat another sport. They may just spread out a bit more across Opens, rather than be more concentrated in the high prize ones. Maybe the high prize Opens are good, as it helps highlight these golfers more clearly, actually? Just not much good to the fair golfers paying to play

 

[IanM]

Just not much good to the fair golfers paying to play

Well. You look at the normal green fee and forget about the comp and prizes.

Are you getting a good deal? If yes, you play, if not, stay away.

 

[3offTheTee]

Jack Hunter ?

No Luke Quint. He was 16th, last qualifier. JH did not qualify

 

[3offTheTee]

My club held a Seniors Open 4BBB on Monday. Out of 96 pairs, the best score was a mere 43, on which there were 3 tied. It was set up as acceptable for handicapping under the new rules, and one player from each of the 3 pairs that tied has had the score added to their handicap record by the automatic system in place. Also a couple of people who were in pairs that scored 42. Looks like the new rule is now up and running. Doesn't help in other team formats though.

We had a Senior's today. I played a few holes earlier today and the course was in excellent condition. They have 2 County events the next 2 weekends and "The Big 6" in August. greens staff working extremely hard

There were 6 scores on 41 and 2 on 40 10 minutes ago with about 6 still to finish. Perhaps some have read this thread and are worried!!

 

[YandaB]

xxxx xxxx?

No yyyy yyyy. He was 16th, last qualifier. XX did not qualify

I'm not sure how these lads will feel having their names on a thread about handicap manipulation? Perhaps better to edit them out?

 

[Swango1980]

I'm not sure how these lads will feel having their names on a thread about handicap manipulation? Perhaps better to edit them out?

I'm not sure they were accused of handicap manipulation?

 

[YandaB]

I'm not sure they were accused of handicap manipulation?

I don't beleive that they are but a Google search might not distinguish that. The Golf Monthly Forums do come up high in the Google results lists.

 

[rulefan]

No Luke Quint.

Birdie on 18th is a very good score.