Unknown ruling -- play 2 balls ??

[nyckuk]

Reading the Tractor marks thread , they were unsure of the rule for playing or moving the ball from tractor tracks on the fairway and it was suggested play from the tracks and another ball with free relief and find out the ruling after the round .
I didnt know this was an option , can you do this in match play ,stroke play , comps etc ???

My scenario was a a few years ago on a Par 3 . I hooked the tee shot left towards the practice green / club house , theres a few bushes and some OOB posts down there .Unsure if ill find my ball in the bushes or OBB i played a provisional 10ft from the flag.
I found my first ball on a patch of grass between the Practice green and the club house . The OOB posts followed a line from the tee every 15ft then stopped, my ball was a further 50ft on but no posts ,so a bit unsure i played that ball and picked up the provisional .
After the round I enquired with one of the older members and he confirmed it was actually OOB but the last few posts had been removed due to vandal damage. So I NR'd the hole and the round as it was a medal , It didn't really matter as i was having a shocker anyway.
So I could of played both balls and found out the situation after ??

 

[Foxholer]

I believe so. But I would have checked about the (lack of) OOB posts with a 'better authority' also. There has been a recent, excessively long, thread about OOB and stakes that, for the want of a perhaps missing stake, might never have needed to exist!

 

[rulie]

Reading the Tractor marks thread , they were unsure of the rule for playing or moving the ball from tractor tracks on the fairway and it was suggested play from the tracks and another ball with free relief and find out the ruling after the round .
I didnt know this was an option , can you do this in match play ,stroke play , comps etc ???

My scenario was a a few years ago on a Par 3 . I hooked the tee shot left towards the practice green / club house , theres a few bushes and some OOB posts down there .Unsure if ill find my ball in the bushes or OBB i played a provisional 10ft from the flag.
I found my first ball on a patch of grass between the Practice green and the club house . The OOB posts followed a line from the tee every 15ft then stopped, my ball was a further 50ft on but no posts ,so a bit unsure i played that ball and picked up the provisional .
After the round I enquired with one of the older members and he confirmed it was actually OOB but the last few posts had been removed due to vandal damage. So I NR'd the hole and the round as it was a medal , It didn't really matter as i was having a shocker anyway.
So I could of played both balls and found out the situation after ??

You cannot play two balls in match play.

 

[Foxholer]

You cannot play two balls in match play.

So, being lazy...if there is disagreement about a ruling, what happens? Does more assertive player's opinion 'win'? Even if wrong?
And how is the situation where both players are adament that they are correct get resolved?

 

[Colin L]

So, being lazy...if there is disagreement about a ruling, what happens? Does more assertive player's opinion 'win'? Even if wrong?
And how is the situation where both players are adament that they are correct get resolved?

See Rule 20.1b

 

[Foxholer]

See Rule 20.1b

That doesn't really help! Though player could notify opponent that he was going to seek ruling later and assume ball was in-bounds - and continue with 1st ball. Should that be deemed wrong, it's loss of hole where '2nd ball' might have resulted in a half or win. Seems a bit 'contra to golf's ethos'.

 

[rulie]

So, being lazy...if there is disagreement about a ruling, what happens? Does more assertive player's opinion 'win'? Even if wrong?
And how is the situation where both players are adament that they are correct get resolved?

If there is a disagreement about a ruling, the player whose ball is involved just does what he thinks the Rules allow. If his opponent (who is not a referee and has no control over the other player's actions) doesn't agree with the actions being taken, he notifies the player that he wishes to seek a ruling. Such notification must occur before either player makes a stroke to begin another hole. The Committee will then determine the proper outcome.

 

[Colin L]

That doesn't really help! Though player could notify opponent that he was going to seek ruling later and assume ball was in-bounds - and continue with 1st ball. Should that be deemed wrong, it's loss of hole where '2nd ball' might have resulted in a half or win. Seems a bit 'contra to golf's ethos'.

As Rule has explained. The player takes the action he thinks fit and his opponent seeks a ruling if he thinks it was a wrong action. It can happen too that the players are in agreement that a ruling is needed, but the player still has to choose one action.

 

[Neilds]

Whilst I understand the answer above from Rulie, my question is with regard to consulting the committee. I have a couple of knockout matches coming up and they are likely to be played in the evenings. How likely is it that I can consult someone from the committee at this time, probably not going to be one around at that time of night- even if I knew who they are. Also, is one committee member enough or should they all get together?

 

[doublebogey7]

Whilst I understand the answer above from Rulie, my question is with regard to consulting the committee. I have a couple of knockout matches coming up and they are likely to be played in the evenings. How likely is it that I can consult someone from the committee at this time, probably not going to be one around at that time of night- even if I knew who they are. Also, is one committee member enough or should they all get together?

Then you carry on playing and obtain a ruling when you are able even if this is after you have finished playing
How you should consult should be included in your clubs terms of competition.

 

[Neilds]

Then you carry on playing and obtain a ruling when you are able even if this is after you have finished playing
How you should consult should be included in your clubs terms of competition.

Just read the response from Rulie slowly and it states the notification should be before the next hole, and not the committee decision. Makes sense now

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

...and so in a match my opponent is adamant on a ruling to his benefit that I disagree with. I tell him that he can continue on the basis of his interpretation but that I will seek a ruling from committee as soon as I can after we get back to clubhouse. He wins the match. I get a ruling and he was wrong. Is he DQ'd and I win the match? During the match I have no way of notifying a committee member of my intention to seek a ruling.

 

[Colin L]

Whilst I understand the answer above from Rulie, my question is with regard to consulting the committee. I have a couple of knockout matches coming up and they are likely to be played in the evenings. How likely is it that I can consult someone from the committee at this time, probably not going to be one around at that time of night- even if I knew who they are. Also, is one committee member enough or should they all get together?

A ruling isn't needed on the spot. You continue and conclude your match and, as said, seek out the ruling as soon as is feasible, It is worth calculating the possible outcomes of the ruling and if a tie were a possible outcome in a match that required a result, playing on to get a result for that possibility. If you see what I mean. Saves having to arrange to complete the match at another time.

 

[Colin L]

...and so in a match my opponent is adamant on a ruling to his benefit that I disagree with. I tell him that he can continue on the basis of his interpretation but that I will seek a ruling from committee as soon as I can after we get back to clubhouse. He wins the match. I get a ruling and he was wrong. Is he DQ'd and I win the match?

DQs don't come into to it. If the ruling changes the result of the hole on which the incident occurred, the state of the match is changed accordingly. That could lead to the match result being unchanged, the match being tied or your winning.

 

[Neilds]

A ruling isn't needed on the spot. You continue and conclude your match and, as said, seek out the ruling as soon as is feasible, It is worth calculating the possible outcomes of the ruling and if a tie were a possible outcome in a match that required a result, playing on to get a result for that possibility. If you see what I mean. Saves having to arrange to complete the match at another time.

See post 11 - realised my mistake

 

[Foxholer]

As Rule has explained. The player takes the action he thinks fit and his opponent seeks a ruling if he thinks it was a wrong action. It can happen too that the players are in agreement that a ruling is needed, but the player still has to choose one action.

I saw, and understood, that. It's just that his/her range of actions are different - and less/limited, because the option of playing a 2nd ball doesn't exist - when compared to strokeplay. I'm puzzled as to why that is.

 

[Foxholer]

If there is a disagreement about a ruling, the player whose ball is involved just does what he thinks the Rules allow. If his opponent (who is not a referee and has no control over the other player's actions) doesn't agree with the actions being taken, he notifies the player that he wishes to seek a ruling. Such notification must occur before either player makes a stroke to begin another hole. The Committee will then determine the proper outcome.

I got that part. But see post 16. I don't see why that 'limitation' exists.

 

[wjemather]

I saw, and understood, that. It's just that his/her range of actions are different - and less/limited, because the option of playing a 2nd ball doesn't exist - when compared to strokeplay. I'm puzzled as to why that is.

In match play would be unfair/unreasonable to have to play a hole against an opponent without knowing how many strokes they have taken.

 

[Foxholer]

In match play would be unfair/unreasonable to have to play a hole against an opponent without knowing how many strokes they have taken.

Why? And that is, pretty much, exactly the situation that can occur if a ruling cannot be obtained immediately. Neither side knows what the actual result of the hole in question was - until a ruling is obtained. So 'awkward' perhaps (for both sides), but not really 'unfair/unreasonable' imo. In fact, it actually seems the 'fairest' way!

 

[YandaB]

Why? And that is, pretty much, exactly the situation that can occur if a ruling cannot be obtained immediately. Neither side knows what the actual result of the hole in question was - until a ruling is obtained. So 'awkward' perhaps (for both sides), but not really 'unfair/unreasonable' imo. In fact, it actually seems the 'fairest' way!

Well if you are playing 2 balls and one might be 2 shots different to the other (let's take the case of of a wobbly out of bounds line ;-) ) then I might well play differently for those 2 situations. So, maybe we then say the opposition can also play 2 balls, what then happens in fourball match play? 8 balls in play, it would be a nightmare rememberng which set is against the other!

I would suggest that the person who might want to play 2 balls instead has to be certain of his knoweldge of the rules and then they will be fine. It's their opinion and their loss if they are wrong.