Tour de France 2019

[Grant85]

Bardet and Pinot are Frances best chance, both suffered tough luck in this years tour but no one said it was easy, as said above, Alaphillpe isn't really a GC contender despite being in yellow for so long and surprised everyone with his efforts and no surprise he was the combative prize for the TdF.

Also other factor is that the perceived wisdom seems to be that this was a tour for a mountains guy. i.e. one 37km time trial, and a team time trial where the TT specialists are neutralised somewhat.

Likely that next year will not have as many high mountain stages, and might have a prologue as well as 1 or 2 individual TT stages. I believe the team TT doesn't feature every year.

 

[User20204]

Every tour is for a mountains guy, if you can't climb, you ain't gonna win it, however to contradict that a tad, when Wiggins won there was over 100km of TT's of which he was a specialist.

 

[Hacker Khan]

I'm sure Alaphillipe is young enough to focus his training for a year or so to get leaner and better in the mountains, as opposed to having the strength for a one day race.

Whoever it is, they must be able to follow the Ineos methodology.

This is basically as follows;
* concentrate the best rider solely on the Tour de France, building everything around that. i.e. not putting a lot into the Giro
* build a team of top GC / mountains guys to support (this is where the ££££ comes in)
* don't focus on other competitions or stage victories during the race
* disciplined coaching and training regime focussing on the marginal gains

Obviously money is a factor, but cycling is hardly Premier League soccer i.e. it's millions a year, rather than billions in terms of budget. I'm sure the likes of Sky and Ineos are not putting sums that other big corporations couldn't afford if they wanted to really give their guys the most support.

Possibly, but I think it's easier for someone like Bernal to get better at time trialing which seems to be his major weakness than someone like Alaphillipe to get better at high climbs. Also i'd agree with a lot of your Ineos methology, but also worth remembering that the last 2 tours they have won have been won by someone from Sky/Ineos who going in was expecting to be a superdomestique for the main GC contender in that team. So having a credible alternative if the main GC rider is not totaly on form also plays a part, although that probably comes from having a very good support team.

 

[Grant85]

Possibly, but I think it's easier for someone like Bernal to get better at time trialing which seems to be his major weakness than someone like Alaphillipe to get better at high climbs. Also i'd agree with a lot of your Ineos methology, but also worth remembering that the last 2 tours they have won have been won by someone from Sky/Ineos who going in was expecting to be a superdomestique for the main GC contender in that team. So having a credible alternative if the main GC rider is not totaly on form also plays a part, although that probably comes from having a very good support team.

Yes - thats where the money comes into it in that they are throwing money at guys like Thomas, Bernal to play support for Froome - in previous years Porte, Landa and Froome himself etc. who would hope to be GC contenders in their own right. Likely that they are getting paid more to be 2nd or 3rd choice riders at Sky / Ineos than they might be as team leader at another team. And are also buying into the team planning that if you do your job and you're good enough - you can take over and be the next team leader.

And as you say, over a 3 week race it can take one crash, illness, injury etc. to de-rail an entire tour for a side with one team leader whereas Sky / Ineos have had good enough 2nd & 3rd choice guys to still win the whole shebang.

 

[User20204]

Sky's team budget was more than double of the next highest team budget during the Froome/Wiggins era, the strongest team will always win the toughest races, bearing in mind Sky at the time really only had one goal, win the tour the other GT's were never their priority. Also remember a number of riders left Sky due to them not having a chance to be team leader, who were good enough to be leaders in other teams, Porte and Uran as perfect examples.

Jim Ratcliffe hasn't pumped 45M into something to come 2nd.

 

[larmen]

Sky's team budget was more than double of the next highest team budget during the Froome/Wiggins era, the strongest team will always win the toughest races, bearing in mind Sky at the time really only had one goal, win the tour the other GT's were never their priority. Also remember a number of riders left Sky due to them not having a chance to be team leader, who were good enough to be leaders in other teams, Porte and Uran as perfect examples.

Just like US Postal/Discovey which had one target, with Landis & Hamilton wanting more for themselves.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Sky's team budget was more than double of the next highest team budget during the Froome/Wiggins era, the strongest team will always win the toughest races, bearing in mind Sky at the time really only had one goal, win the tour the other GT's were never their priority. Also remember a number of riders left Sky due to them not having a chance to be team leader, who were good enough to be leaders in other teams, Porte and Uran as perfect examples.

Jim Ratcliffe hasn't pumped 45M into something to come 2nd.

But is it not the case that under Dave Brailsford Sky/ Ineos/Team GB have taken a far Maori professional approach to it, looking at every detail to maximise output/speed/ results?
The French don’t like it because they didn’t think about and do it first.

 

[User20204]

I used the quote earlier in this topic, the French were making noises about Team GB always winning plenty golds at the Olympics and Brailsford replied when asked, our wheels are rounder than theirs.

 

[Deleted member 1418]

I used the quote earlier in this topic, the French were making noises about Team GB always winning plenty golds at the Olympics and Brailsford replied when asked, our wheels are rounder than theirs.

Yes I liked that one too!!!

Think I'm also right in saying that when Team GB were predominantly track focussed, a number of countries were querying why Team GB did so well at the Olympics; and the simple answer was that the Olympics were the priority and therefore all the funding and technology development was focussed to success at those!!

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Slight sidetrack here but the British Olympics Association have been quite smart. They have targetted minority sports were people can be forged into medallists, rowing, or where there is little competition worldwide. They haven't ploughed money into the 100m track, they have aimed at events that few bother with.

In terms of cycling, I'm an outsider here but intrigued by Brailsford, it looks as though Sky took the professionalism to a whole new level and got a jump start on the competition. Success then breeds success, attracts the better riders etc. There was a fascinating piece released by Sky when Froome was under suspicion. It documented the planning for a key stage in the TdF, one where he destroyed the opposition and effectively won the tour that year. The level of detail was amazing and took even TdF journos by surprise. Until the other teams catch up they will keep on winning.

 

[patricks148]

Slight sidetrack here but the British Olympics Association have been quite smart. They have targetted minority sports were people can be forged into medallists, rowing, or where there is little competition worldwide. They haven't ploughed money into the 100m track, they have aimed at events that few bother with.

In terms of cycling, I'm an outsider here but intrigued by Brailsford, it looks as though Sky took the professionalism to a whole new level and got a jump start on the competition. Success then breeds success, attracts the better riders etc. There was a fascinating piece released by Sky when Froome was under suspicion. It documented the planning for a key stage in the TdF, one where he destroyed the opposition and effectively won the tour that year. The level of detail was amazing and took even TdF journos by surprise. Until the other teams catch up they will keep on winning.

Though there was scientific research by The Russians and then the Italians in the late 80's early 90's that was mostly Doping related. I remember when Chris Boardman signed for Gan after his Olympic gold and all the scientific methords he used were Poo poo'd by the continntal Cycling establishment. they are only in the last few years taking the same approach some 30 years later