The job application mine field!

[harpo_72]

I hate job applications but they are a necessary evil. However the biggest issue I have is the "salary expectation" question. On several occasions I have been told I am too high or I was over paid, which is kind of demoralising. I also have felt I have been dismissed or not got an interview because I put in the wrong range.
I usually don't answer this question now directly as I would like to know more about the job and the benefits before I commit. Basically does a builder quote for a job on the vaguest of out lines?
However I have been reading around and there are some people saying that as a recruiter they would dismiss a person who fails to put a value. But why can't they put what they want to pay ? Or will they not get the calibre of candidate they expect? Honestly I am at a loss.

 

[Lump]

I agree with you, but all you can be is honest.
I recently had an interview and told them exactly what I was on. I lose nothing by telling them in my eyes, yes they could offer me a lower amount then they had planned but I wouldn't make the move if I didn't see the positives. Thankfully said company offered me 10K more than I am currently on, so I now start next month. Happy days.

Good luck with the job hunt!

 

[Birchy]

I would say it all depends on your reason for applying.

Are you applying to leave a current job to get more money? If so research how much on average the job your applying for pays and compare it to what you are getting paid now. I would then come up with a figure I would be happy to do the job for and put that down.

If I was out of work I would just put down how much I would feel happy doing the job for.

 

[mikee247]

I hate job applications but they are a necessary evil. However the biggest issue I have is the "salary expectation" question. On several occasions I have been told I am too high or I was over paid, which is kind of demoralising. I also have felt I have been dismissed or not got an interview because I put in the wrong range.
I usually don't answer this question now directly as I would like to know more about the job and the benefits before I commit. Basically does a builder quote for a job on the vaguest of out lines?
However I have been reading around and there are some people saying that as a recruiter they would dismiss a person who fails to put a value. But why can't they put what they want to pay ? Or will they not get the calibre of candidate they expect? Honestly I am at a loss.

Ok Im an ex Head hunter and Search Consultant - If the recruiters you are looking/ speaking to are asking you to fill in the boxes and will only consider those features I would suggest they are the wrong people to be speaking to. Its a tough environment out there and you have to play the game for sure and of course recruitment consultants are traditionally poor in dealing with applications on behalf of clients they are working for and to be fair to them they have to fit a criteria they have been given. I could give you plenty of advice on how to get round and present yourself in a better light for different roles but firstly I dont know what you do and what you specialise in to be specific and secondly my consultancy fees need to be agreed!

What I would suggest firstly is find someone who you can trust, meet face to face and find someone who you feel comfortable with and has an imagination and a sense of purpose. If you are a good candidate they will work and find you the right role and if they have some clients then those clients will trust their advice. If your'e expensive and don't fit in the pay ranges, validate that with a decent cv/resume and push for an interview via this consultant. He/she should be able to secure interviews with people even if there's no real role! Sounds mad but trust me thats how the game is played and its an immediate feedback commercially for both parties. If you're good you will find a decent job.

Clients will pay a premium for decent people I guarantee you. I have placed dozens of senior level candidates over the yeas in roles where their salaries are way out of the initial target figure. I have to admit its usually on an exclusive and direct basis so I have a relationship with a senior level decision making line manager that can over rule some little jobs worth HR person whose administrating all the box ticking malarkey.
The thing is although there is a recession there is a massive shortage of "quality" candidates in all industries. Yes loads looking for jobs but they are not high standard ( good people stay put in tough times and clients hang on to their best people) and that's why there is all this crap paper applications and red tape rubbish going on.

That all said however if a role is being advertised or a recruiter wants to know your salary range which turns out to be way out side the range for you then perhaps the role and more importantly the company is not right for you.

Find a good person to represent and work with you in a proactive way. It makes a huge difference. Patience, preparation and forward thinking required.

Happy to help further if you want to divulge more

 

[Birchy]

Ok Im an ex Head hunter and Search Consultant - If the recruiters you are looking/ speaking to are asking you to fill in the boxes and will only consider those features I would suggest they are the wrong people to be speaking to. Its a tough environment out there and you have to play the game for sure and of course recruitment consultants are traditionally poor in dealing with applications on behalf of clients they are working for and to be fair to them they have to fit a criteria they have been given. I could give you plenty of advice on how to get round and present yourself in a better light for different roles but firstly I dont know what you do and what you specialise in to be specific and secondly my consultancy fees need to be agreed!

What I would suggest firstly is find someone who you can trust, meet face to face and find someone who you feel comfortable with and has an imagination and a sense of purpose. If you are a good candidate they will work and find you the right role and if they have some clients then those clients will trust their advice. If your'e expensive and don't fit in the pay ranges, validate that with a decent cv/resume and push for an interview via this consultant. He/she should be able to secure interviews with people even if there's no real role! Sounds mad but trust me thats how the game is played and its an immediate feedback commercially for both parties. If you're good you will find a decent job.

Clients will pay a premium for decent people I guarantee you. I have placed dozens of senior level candidates over the yeas in roles where their salaries are way out of the initial target figure. I have to admit its usually on an exclusive and direct basis so I have a relationship with a senior level decision making line manager that can over rule some little jobs worth HR person whose administrating all the box ticking malarkey.
The thing is although there is a recession there is a massive shortage of "quality" candidates in all industries. Yes loads looking for jobs but they are not high standard ( good people stay put in tough times and clients hang on to their best people) and that's why there is all this crap paper applications and red tape rubbish going on.

That all said however if a role is being advertised or a recruiter wants to know your salary range which turns out to be way out side the range for you then perhaps the role and more importantly the company is not right for you.

Find a good person to represent and work with you in a proactive way. It makes a huge difference. Patience, preparation and forward thinking required.

Happy to help further if you want to divulge more

Sounds ace, where do I sign

 

[mikee247]

Sounds ace, where do I sign

Give me the secret on how you are getting your handicap to go in the right direction and Ill throw in some free bees!

 

[Birchy]

Give me the secret on how you are getting your handicap to go in the right direction and Ill throw in some free bees!

You need a horse, a sombrero and a high handicap to start with Its not looking good for you im afraid :rofl:

Interesting to read about the job you used to do though :thup: Sounds like a good job in itself

Ive only ever been at one place so not much experience in the "playing the field" job wise. Something I will be looking into over the next year or two.

 

[harpo_72]

Thanks for the replies! I did an interview recently where they rang up and told me he salary was 50% below my previous jobs and perhaps i was not a suitable candidate. I decided to go for the practice and get into the feel of being interviewed. Hopefully they were impressed and realise that for a little more they could get a candidate who can do the job and some. But we'll see, only time will tell.
My field of expertise is very specialised and I don't think there are people with my knowledge or experience. I have no intention of offering it up cheaply, I worked hard to get it. I would rather do something totally different and be a novice at it and be paid accordingly than be under valued. I know it sounds petty but that is the way I feel.

 

[Birchy]

Thanks for the replies! I did an interview recently where they rang up and told me he salary was 50% below my previous jobs and perhaps i was not a suitable candidate. I decided to go for the practice and get into the feel of being interviewed. Hopefully they were impressed and realise that for a little more they could get a candidate who can do the job and some. But we'll see, only time will tell.
My field of expertise is very specialised and I don't think there are people with my knowledge or experience. I have no intention of offering it up cheaply, I worked hard to get it. I would rather do something totally different and be a novice at it and be paid accordingly than be under valued. I know it sounds petty but that is the way I feel.

Do you think because there is more people looking for a job than normal they may be trying it on with the salary? Trying to get somebody on the cheap maybe??

 

[harpo_72]

Yes i think that is the case. The HR made the point that I was redundant, however my wife runs her own business so we are not desperate. It is a case of me wanting to have some intellectual stimulation and buy a new car .

 

[6inchcup]

I'm a manager of a bathroom and heating company and get 10 or 20cv's a week and to be brutal most go in the bin,they are at best childlike or some illegible to say the least,we had an advert for a time served fitter and got people turning up at the showroom smelling of drink or body odour,not the best start,I interviewed one bloke who expected £700 a week and a company vehicle to use for private use and Friday afternoon's off,and no weekends,when I asked what he was getting at his present job he told me "it was F all to do with you" I employed a young lad who wanted to make a better life for his new family and on paper he wasn't the best choice but I wish I had 10more like him.

 

[Birchy]

Yes i think that is the case. The HR made the point that I was redundant, however my wife runs her own business so we are not desperate. It is a case of me wanting to have some intellectual stimulation and buy a new car .

The fact they made the point you are redundant smells a bit! Obviously looking for somebody desperate enough to take the offer.

 

[harpo_72]

She was pushing the lower wage, but to get what they want they would need to pay the numbers I suggested, as the skills they require are very specific and the knowledge is as well. The difficult part is it will be live, but that isn't so bad if the structure has been set up and tested. I cannot imagine anyone out of university will have the knowledge or capability to do the job. I think it would present a challenge for me and I know what I'm doing....

 

[Hobbit]

I've started guys this year on £27k, and the right guy, with a bucket load of quals and experience doing the same job on £35k. The guy on £27k will take two years to train, and the guy on £35k was bringing in money in 5mths.

If you're good enough, with a proven track record, you will find the right job with the right company.

 

[Birchy]

I've started guys this year on £27k, and the right guy, with a bucket load of quals and experience doing the same job on £35k. The guy on £27k will take two years to train, and the guy on £35k was bringing in money in 5mths.

If you're good enough, with a proven track record, you will find the right job with the right company.

Nice to hear :thup:

 

[harpo_72]

I've started guys this year on £27k, and the right guy, with a bucket load of quals and experience doing the same job on £35k. The guy on £27k will take two years to train, and the guy on £35k was bringing in money in 5mths.

If you're good enough, with a proven track record, you will find the right job with the right company.

Are you not over paying the guy who needs training? Or are you under paying the guy who is bringing the money in? Or is there a difference in benefits?

I don't know about the rest of you but I don't like this well if you don't like it move on attitude you get from some organisations. It's so short sighted because you waste time training new people and you lose customer confidence every time they get a new face. But most of all you lose the time and skills you invested in because you could not be bothered to pay them to stay.
I worked for a big corporate and if I have the choice I will never again, I was used and I made others look good and gain promotion, off the back of my hard work. They also had their specials who come in and cause havoc but then get promotion, leaving people like myself picking up the mess.
I much prefer my previous situation where I answer to one person and he sees the value in what I do, the communication line is simple and we both get what we want from it.

 

[harpo_72]

Just an update, letter came through Friday morning saying I did not make it to the second round of interviews, apparently I did not have enough experience for their job. Honestly think it was just a common letter they sent out to everyone, as I have over 10 years experience in the field. Doesn't really help one's moral ... But must keep looking.

 

[DappaDonDave]

Revruitment is brutal, I worked in public sector revruitment for 5 years and some people just expect a job because they've applied. We tend to get on average 150 apps for an admin job 100 are pointless who think admin is just like writing a letter and the other 50 are all similar.

I now deal with HR systems and lead on the Councils usage of agency workers, our issue is agents getting this 'senior manager' to believe their BS and pay their temp twice as much as they 1. Deserve 2. Should be paid.

You've still not told us your speciality?

If you can get onto an agency books use the guidance above, meet your consultant and tell them exactly what you want