The Honours System

SwingsitlikeHogan said:
And so it comes to pass that a devious, conniving, cynical and divisive political adviser is set to become a knight of the realm. Unbelievable if it wasn't Cameron and the Tories who have dreamed up such a cracking wheeze. If ever a good reason was required to make it obvious why the whole unedifying spectacle that the honours system has become needs complete reforming then Cameron in his utter arrogance has just provided it.
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Cracker of a post - take two asprin and go to the back of the class.
 
Lord Tyrion said:
100% behind this. They have no place in a modern world. Banning all titles and honours, past, present and future, would be one of my first decrees given 24 hours in power. Lord Archer, Sir Mark Thatcher really. Game over
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Why?

All the above proves is the selection process, and maybe those doing the selecting, is flawed. But as Pauldj42 has said, many unknown and deserving people receive recognition for their hard work.

Should golf clubs hold presentation nights, and recognise/thanks all those that do some sterling work behind the scenes? Should the greens staff and bar staff be acknowledged in speeches? Should the Junior Co-ordinator be acknowledged for many hours of unpaid work?

I don't doubt for one minute that there are a good number of underserving cases, and the system is abused, but surely there should be a mechanism for, publically, saying thank you...
 
Hobbit said:
Why?

All the above proves is the selection process, and maybe those doing the selecting, is flawed. But as Pauldj42 has said, many unknown and deserving people receive recognition for their hard work.

Should golf clubs hold presentation nights, and recognise/thanks all those that do some sterling work behind the scenes? Should the greens staff and bar staff be acknowledged in speeches? Should the Junior Co-ordinator be acknowledged for many hours of unpaid work?

I don't doubt for one minute that there are a good number of underserving cases, and the system is abused, but surely there should be a mechanism for, publically, saying thank you...
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Agree with this really.. The system is largely flawed, but in the right hands it could be fine tuned into something very useful.. And by the right hands I obviously mean as far away from politicians as is humanly possible..
 
The HoL has been an anachronism for centuries. There is simply no justification in choosing a bunch of the great and the good to become lawmakers. Many other countries have a unicameral system or their second chamber is also elected, so some semblance of democracy exists, although often rather distorted.

But what makes Andrew Lloyd-Webber appropriate to be an unelected lawmaker? Why should the late Lord Janner be allowed to remain a lawmaker even after he was behind the law?

All the parties reward cronies and benefactors, but Lynton Crosby is a crass and vulgar choice even by Tory standards.
 
Hobbit - I think the system has been abused too greatly to be fixed. Too many undeserving people, frankly too many appalling people have been given honours. People who have done wonderful things don't need honours, they have our appreciation already.
 
Lord Tyrion said:
Hobbit - I think the system has been abused too greatly to be fixed. Too many undeserving people, frankly too many appalling people have been given honours. People who have done wonderful things don't need honours, they have our appreciation already.
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Absolutely agree with you. But as quite often happens when things go wrong, the baby gets thrown out with the bath water. I like the idea behind honouring people, the right people, but its subjective.

Politics, and politicians, is/are a dirty word, but there are good politicians out there that deserve recognition for what they do. Sadly, the partisanship that goes with politics means that although some might view a particular politician as being well deserving, others will say no absolutely not. Maybe the answer is no politicians should be rewarded, which sounds unfair, and the HoL is done away with in its entirety.
 
Lord Tyrion said:
Hobbit - I think the system has been abused too greatly to be fixed. Too many undeserving people, frankly too many appalling people have been given honours. People who have done wonderful things don't need honours, they have our appreciation already.
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How do we show these wonderful people our appreciattion without the honours and how do we know they know, I've met married couples in their 70's and 80's who have fostered hundreds of children in their lifetimes, the people they deal directly with may appreciatte them but others don't.
Sometimes it's the public recognition of these people that inspires others, to simply say they know they have our appreciattion is not neccessrily enough.
 
Imurg said:
Oh I dont know..Lord JohnnyDee has a certain ring to it...:clap:
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Hey, you could be right Imurg.

If I'm prepared to be a total hypocrite, renounce my previous post and accept this new title you're bestowing upon me, then I'd say that makes me perfect material to be Lord Johnnydee :D :thup:
 
Ethan said:
But what makes Andrew Lloyd-Webber appropriate to be an unelected lawmaker? Why should the late Lord Janner be allowed to remain a lawmaker even after he was behind the law?
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Are the House of Lords part of the NY & Birthday honours? I thought it is about the Knighthoods, MBE's, CBEs and OBEs. Basically, titles without any responsibility.
 
Doon frae Troon said:
Baroness Mone of Mayfair................I rest my case.
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I was going to ask what edition was she featured in, but that would be wrong, :)

Surely if we are going to have a second chamber of government, it should be filled with people who have a wide variety of skills including those who have been successful as entrepreneurs and business people. as well as those ex politicians who have some idea how the country operates. not saying its perfect, but its what we have.

Besides as Larman said earlier, being made an MBE, OBE or Knight does not give you a seat in the House Of Lords
 
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Doon frae Troon said:
Baroness Mone of Mayfair................I rest my case.
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On what basis? Hugely successful, starting from nothing.... Oh wait, she roundly criticised the Scottish independence campaign.

as for the tax avoidance case; sorry but I've always believed HMRC are to blame for the loopholes, not the people who've taken advantage of them.
 
Getting an OBE or a Knighthood may not get you seat in the House of Lords but it is apparently a very good way of getting a better seat on an aircraft. Must work harder on boosting my celebrity status.
 
Hobbit said:
On what basis? Hugely successful, starting from nothing.... Oh wait, she roundly criticised the Scottish independence campaign.

as for the tax avoidance case; sorry but I've always believed HMRC are to blame for the loopholes, not the people who've taken advantage of them.
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She has a well earned, lengthy reputation for treating her staff badly but the government appoint her as a business advisor.:confused:
Perhaps she is going to teach tax avoidance.
Not so successful a business since her husband/business partner left her. Going broke if you believe the Maley Dale.
 
pauldj42 said:
Not getting into the rights and wrongs, I personally attend 6-8 Investiture Ceremonies a year, each ceremony has on average 100 recipients (Military and Civilian mixed) and have seen every medal presented from Victoria Cross to MBE, Knighthood to Polar Medal.
For all the cynicism of celebrities and mates, there are hundreds upon hundreds of "normal" people being recognised for some incredible and humbling achievements.
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This. While the system as a whole may have issues and flaws, the fact that members of the public who give up thousands of hours of their time to help others are recognised for their efforts is necessary and correct. As for the Lords, that is a system that has run it course and needs a new way fit for the 21st century. Won't happen of course and so the cycle continues
 
The director and treasurer of the Scottish Conservatives..........a political party that has produced FOUR Westminster MP's in the last DECADE are awarded Knighthoods...aye right, well earned boys.
 
The people who would abolish the honours system, politicians and senior civil servants are the very same people who believe receiving an honour is part of their pension pay off. Therefore the honours system will continue. Cynical, moi?

I'm best avoiding the news today, I'll just get annoyed. I just reached Sir Lynton Crosby and Dame Babs Windsor and nearly trashed the tv. Another proud moment for the system.
 
Lord Tyrion said:
The people who would abolish the honours system, politicians and senior civil servants are the very same people who believe receiving an honour is part of their pension pay off. Therefore the honours system will continue. Cynical, moi?

I'm best avoiding the news today, I'll just get annoyed. I just reached Sir Lynton Crosby and Dame Babs Windsor and nearly trashed the tv. Another proud moment for the system.
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I'm with you on trying to avoid all mention of honours today - just winds me up when it is so debased. As if chucking in an honour for likes of Babs Windsor will make that for Crosby more acceptable.

Bearing in mind it was Crosby who dreamed up the 'fear the SNP' campaign that so infected and distorted the last GE. More divisive and potentially destructive to the unity of the UK a campaign theme you could hardly imagine. And yet he gets an honour for public service. You are seriously have a laugh.

Actually Cameron doesn't give a monkeys what anyone thinks as he knows Labour are pretty much as effective and noticeable as a fart in a Harry hurricane at the moment and he's outta there in four years time in any case - looking forward to his own grand elevation to the House of Lords no doubt.
 
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