Switching pros for a 2nd opinion?

[barrybridges]

I wonder what other people's views are on this one.

I've been having lessons every fortnight with my local pro and during that time my game has undoubtedly improved - at the start of the year I was going round in 100+ and now my best is low 80s.

My problem is that for the past month I've really felt 'stuck in a rut' with his teaching methods: I feel he is trying to change my game away from something which appears to be working well, towards something which is giving worse results.

The crux of it is that my swing is reasonably ok, except for the release which is quite 'flicky'. Shots still go straight and I have good distance, but he is trying to remodel my swing to remove the flickiness, but the result of this is that my shots have lost all distance. Whereas before I'd hit my 7i 150 yards, I just can't get ANY power with his recommendations and I'm barely getting 110 yards. No matter how hard I try I just can't grasp what he's trying to get me to do and I've had 3 - 4 lessons now which have covered the same ground.

What I wondered is whether it would be a good idea to have a lesson or 2 with a different pro to get their opinion on it; it might be just that I'm not understanding my pro well enough. Or that he isn't picking up on the key issue that I'm struggling to grasp.

I'm keen to get an alternative opinion but I feel like I'm betraying him a bit; I also don't want too many cooks to spoil the broth, so to speak.

Any thoughts?

 

[One Planer]

Change will always be difficult, especially if you are comfortable how you're swinging.

As with any change, you'll get worse before you get better. Just persivere with it and results will come.

 

[Oddsocks]

Baz, Accuracy 1st, power later. If you pro has got a 20% improvement why the hell would you change. Most people would be happy with a 5% improvement.

How are your stats, for example greens Hit and fairways hit.

 

[bladeplayer]

Have you discussed this with your current pro Barry ??? your the one handing over the cash so next time you are down have a chat 1st & yell him how you feel & ask him to explain what he is building your game twords , if your happy stick with it, if not he changes to something ye are both happy with or you move pro's. one thing tho if you are changing your game it is going to feel very wrong & unnatrual until you get use to it .. so have that chat & decide then

 

[barrybridges]

Baz, Accuracy 1st, power later. If you pro has got a 20% improvement why the hell would you change. Most people would be happy with a 5% improvement.

How are your stats, for example greens Hit and fairways hit.

Basically since all the improvement I now feel he's trying to undo it all.

Under his instruction my stats have improved:

FIR: 21% >> 86%

GIR: 5% >> 57%

At this point, he has said my ball striking is good, but that he thinks that there's a better swing in there with more power.

So, since then, my swing has fallen to pieces - not in terms of accuracy - but distance:

FIR: 86% >> 81%

GIR: 57% >> 7%

My release has always been quite 'flicky', but still very neutral: my shots have above-average distance and generally go straight (or as straight as anyone else's).

What he's trying to do is get my swing to satisfy the purists - he wants to create the model perfect swing - but I think what he's asking of me is just not possible for where I am; I really struggle with his changes.

I know people say things need to get worse before they get better, but the point I'm trying to make is that I can't actually understand what he wants me to do or what 'better' looks like. When I hit the ball well he'll tell me 'that's exactly how it should be', even though it's massively short of what I had before.

Some examples of how my distances have changed:

4i - 190 >> 140
5i - 175 >> 130
6i - 160 >> 120
7i - 145 >> 110
8i - 130 >> 100
9i - 115 >> 90

I could understand if this is the 'worse' before the better, but he's suggesting that I'm now hitting the ball much better.

I would rather take my old swing back and get the distances I had before - even with a flicky release - rather than what I have now with a 'better' swing.

 

[Oddsocks]

I xcan understand the concern now. the FIR & GIR improvements were awesome, id be chuffed with that imrovement. Regarding distance loss....... thats only something you can discuss with him.

Id make a note like you have here, and show it to him, see what hes feedback is.

 

[barrybridges]

Have you discussed this with your current pro Barry ??? your the one handing over the cash so next time you are down have a chat 1st & yell him how you feel & ask him to explain what he is building your game twords , if your happy stick with it, if not he changes to something ye are both happy with or you move pro's. one thing tho if you are changing your game it is going to feel very wrong & unnatrual until you get use to it .. so have that chat & decide then

I have sort of - I'm very happy with him (he's a top guy and you can't deny the improvement he's responsible for) but his teaching methods are quite conceptual and theoretical, whereas I'd probably respond better now to someone more instrumental in their approach.

He's big on theory which I like, but at the moment I can't 'get' what he wants my swing to be like, which is where I'm hugely struggling.

 

[bladeplayer]

Have you discussed this with your current pro Barry ??? your the one handing over the cash so next time you are down have a chat 1st & yell him how you feel & ask him to explain what he is building your game twords , if your happy stick with it, if not he changes to something ye are both happy with or you move pro's. one thing tho if you are changing your game it is going to feel very wrong & unnatrual until you get use to it .. so have that chat & decide then

I have sort of - I'm very happy with him (he's a top guy and you can't deny the improvement he's responsible for) but his teaching methods are quite conceptual and theoretical, whereas I'd probably respond better now to someone more instrumental in their approach.

He's big on theory which I like, but at the moment I can't 'get' what he wants my swing to be like, which is where I'm hugely struggling.

Sure if ya can afford it mate you have nothing to loose in having couple of lessons with some one else to see ,, prob is you cant stay with 2 coaches coz one could be cancelling out the good work of the other , have 2 lessons with a diff guy just to see . it'll install full faith in your current guy or make up your mind regarding moving or not. at least youl know

 

[BoadieBroadus]

I'd stick with him, but let him know that yo're not picking it up easily. He'll probably have several methods of trying to teach you the same thing if one's not working.

I threaten to sack my pro every time i've had a bad round, but the progress i made is undeniable so i'm glad i let him off.

 

[Tommo21]

Mmmm, I’m going to be different, not just because I want to be, because it sounds as if this pro is filling your head with too many things too early. It seems like a massive change if you’re coming from 145 yards to 110 with your 7 iron, that sounds real drastic for a high handicapper, or anyone, to endure. If it was the other way then fine…we wouldn’t believe you. Unless your swing has slowed down dramatically to slow motion, swing vision speed, then something don’t sound right.

If you’re going to continue this route then fine, but don’t feel you’re betraying anyone, apart from yourself. It’s your money.

If a pro lost me that amount………………….

 

[Golfmmad]

How about getting your Pro to video your swing.

That way you can see what he's trying to get across.
The old adage, "Seeing is believing", comes to mind.

Just a thought

Golfmmad.

 

[barrybridges]

How about getting your Pro to video your swing.

That way you can see what he's trying to get across.
The old adage, "Seeing is believing", comes to mind.

Just a thought

Golfmmad.

He does video it but I still just don't 'get it'.

Or rather, I do 'get it' but what he wants feels really weak.

I'll try and explain it:

At the moment, my swing is slightly too shallow and off-plane. Consequently, when I'm at the top of my backswing I tend to lead the downswing with the arms so that at the point of impact my right arm and wrist dominate. What I'm doing is trying to 'scoop' the ball up so as I release the ball, rather than having extended arms, it's quite noticeable that my right arm is curling round to scoop the ball up.

I end up in a strong finish position though - my shots have good distance and generally go in the right direction where I'm aiming.

What he is having me do is come in at a steeper angle. I'm in a stronger position at the top of the backswing.

What I can't do though, is 'get' how he wants me to initiative the downswing. The transition, if you like. He's having me take swings where rather than swing all the way through, I'm to keep the right arm rotating over the left to finish with my arms out in front of me.

This is all fine and I can do it, but I have absolutely no power in the shot.

However, he is happy with it. He says 'that's how it should be'.

Now, I would ordinarily be fine with that if I could feel that I'm learning something new and that improvement would come with practice. The thing is - what he is having me to is the fully-developed version. No matter how much more I practice, I don't have any more power in that swing. I can't swing faster. I can't coil any further. I just don't have any more power in me in that swing.

I don't know what to do about my right arm dominating and me 'scooping' the ball up. I just can't 'get' what he wants me to do or what the right mechanism feels like. I've honestly had 4 lessons on this specifically and I'm almost at the point where I feel like telling him I want to stop the lessons - because I feel I'm wasting money on him telling me exactly the same thing week after week.

I just don't get it.

If I posted a video on youtube maybe it would help and others could offer their opinion? Or is that a dangerous thing to do?!

 

[USER1999]

What he is telling you to do sounds like tosh to me.

 

[EZprophet]

My guess is that if your pro was brutally honest with you, he would tell you that there is no possible way of you improving without getting the "flicky release" as you call it, out of your swing.

A lot of people have this idea that when they make swing changes, they can keep the "good parts" of their swing and just get rid of the swing flaws, but unfortunately thats not how it works. The swing is a chain reaction and every part of it affects every other part of it.

It completely depends on your goals as to what you should do to be honest. If you are relatively happy playing to the standard you are currently, then theres no point making big changes to your swing. But if you want to improve significantly at the game you have to be prepared to make drastic changes.

My advice would be to stick with your pro and try to understand the concept of what he wants you to do. Having lessons is completely pointless unless you trust your pro 100% and work hard at what he wants you to do.

 

[barrybridges]

My guess is that if your pro was brutally honest with you, he would tell you that there is no possible way of you improving without getting the "flicky release" as you call it, out of your swing.

A lot of people have this idea that when they make swing changes, they can keep the "good parts" of their swing and just get rid of the swing flaws, but unfortunately thats not how it works. The swing is a chain reaction and every part of it affects every other part of it.

It completely depends on your goals as to what you should do to be honest. If you are relatively happy playing to the standard you are currently, then theres no point making big changes to your swing. But if you want to improve significantly at the game you have to be prepared to make drastic changes.

My advice would be to stick with your pro and try to understand the concept of what he wants you to do. Having lessons is completely pointless unless you trust your pro 100% and work hard at what he wants you to do.

I don't disagree with you - my point is merely that I am really struggling to understand what he is trying to teach. I either don't know if it's possible (e.g. it's genuinely above my ability level - the position he wants me to play in is too much of a stretch for me) or it might just be that I'm totally misunderstanding what he is trying to explain.

He is a good coach and explains things in terms of dynamics and reasons and theory, but I just want someone to say 'this is what the right move feels and looks like', because I can't 'get' what he's trying to suggest. Until I know what the right move feels like, I won't be able to replicate it.

 

[viscount17]

nothing wrong in going to someone else, got a few guys at my place who use different coaches for different parts of their game. They are all either single figures or heading that way.

just take your new swing and show it - no big explanations. you never know he may spot it in a couple of minutes.

tbh, I don't think I'd get on with your coach - way too technical

 

[Junior]

Crickey , im no pro but no swing changes should result in that amount of lost distance !!!

2nd opinion for me !!

 

[Golfmmad]

I don't think posting a video on youtube would be a problem.
It's the first thing Bobmac usually asks before giving advice.

I'm sure Justone would offer help as well.

Golfmmad.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

A good teaching pro should be able to teach in a number of different ways to get the message across. Personally I prefer to feel where the club should be and how the body feels in the correct positions as it is easier for me to understand and focus on it.

I think you need to sit down and have a chat with the guy and express your concerns especially concerning what seems to be a drastic loss of distance. If you aren't happy with the way he is teaching "conceptually" then you aren't going to get the most from it and may be struggling to put drills into practice.

I had a guy I worked with for the first three years I came back to golf (2006) and he was excellent and it really stuck and my handicap tumbled and I won a few things. However a combination of him moving to a facility further away and him getting injured meant I needed a new teacher and the one I have now is really good. He explains it very simply and knows how like to be taught and explains it really clearly. The drills are designed to get me to feel the change and so when I hit a bad one I can tell why.

There is nothing wrong with perhaps a couple of lessons with someone else and seeing if it makes the difference. It is like a ot of things and sometimes you just need a fresh pair of eyes and a blank canvass