Sustainability

[harpo_72]

Would you accept a degradation of quality or away from what you consider normal if it meant the environment was looked after?
Massive debate at work at the moment a lot of stone chucking at tyre companies, by people who are unaware of the issues. But n the aftermarket people just buy what is cheap or available.
The Car makers don’t expect a degradation in expected performance- I had this issue when I had to make a whole vehicle line class A low RRc tyres and dynamics teams just asking for the same performance.
I feel I am in the same place, jam in the sandwich and no pragmatism.
The sustainable company today openly admitted they have not met the required legislative safety targets .. so how on earth can they deploy into market?

 

[USER1999]

Bit of a garbled post from my understanding.

I am assuming it is a tyre wear / grip / longevity / degradation question.

Sorry, but I put grip top of my priorities when buying tyres, not life, or degradation. They are the only part of my car in contact with the road, and they need to keep my car on the tarmac. Pirelli Pzero is my tyre of choice.

 

[Hobbit]

Good question. Its a bit of an all encompassing question. Would I accept a tyre that was rated to 110mph as opposed to 150mph? Doesn't matter because I'd never get anywhere near 110mph. Therefore why wouldn't I accept the 110mph?

But if you're asking would I accept a 110mph tyre that is being made without meeting the safety requirements, then the answer has to be no. If it wasn't meeting the requirements, would it be safe at 110mph? Where's the trust in the manufacturer?

Back in the 70's it was possible to buy a motorbike tyre that would last 10k miles but it slid around like it was made from ice. And Michelin(?) made a tyre that struggled to achieve 4k miles. The Michelin was a luxury, and bikers rarely bought it, preferring to choose something in between. But the Michelin was amazing, and a great summer tyre for when you wanted some fun. But it also comes down to economics, i.e. what can any individual afford?

 

[USER1999]

That said, if I drove a 1ltr hatchback, cost would probably be more relevant.

If a company made sustainable tyres made from bamboo, I would only buy them if they gave comparable performance.

 

[harpo_72]

The class A stuff was hard because we were learning but also no one was accepting that they had to compromise or do more work in their areas.
We eventually changed the sizing strategy to account for the compromises and achieve high speed dynamic stability.
But as you say you choose what you perceive to be the best or what is available.. so in the end the internal debates hold no value and piece price we take a hit on isn’t worth it.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I only buy quality tyres and have good wet grip. My tyre manufacturer of choice is Continental. Tyre life and cost is of little interest compared to grip.

 

[harpo_72]

It’s interesting reading the buying responses.
Tyre dust is the new big issue .. but how much is actually generated by personal cars? I think it’s probably very little in reality and then we are talking about another market that only look at longevity and cost. Ride, noise and grip are not considered beyond legislative passes.

 

[Hobbit]

It’s interesting reading the buying responses.
Tyre dust is the new big issue .. but how much is actually generated by personal cars? I think it’s probably very little in reality and then we are talking about another market that only look at longevity and cost. Ride, noise and grip are not considered beyond legislative passes.

Are you too close to the trees? How many people even know of tyre dust?

 

[USER1999]

Are you too close to the trees? How many people even know of tyre dust?

Me!

 

[harpo_72]

Are you too close to the trees? How many people even know of tyre dust?

Came on the radar in 2016, technical specialist got a call in to see the board. They started beating him up on it. He came back and was just white as a sheet.
We were up the creak, high powered heavy cars are just prone to it. Plus no one gave a monkeys about road surfaces and ambient conditions .. it was, you will fix it.
But autonomous cars are okay, inputs are gentle, but batteries are an issue. You are carrying around ballast. We need the public to understand small batteries are good and you can recharge at home.

 

[SocketRocket]

Me!

I don't think that answers his question ?

 

[SocketRocket]

How much of an issue is this for the average motorist. We don't drive fast, most commutes are on A/B roads, we don't experience many tyre problems what ever we buy.

I can only assume tyre dust is something to do with pollution from tyre wear, if so no one seems to be making Joe Public aware of it.

I think this is more of an issue with the specialists.

 

[harpo_72]

How much of an issue is this for the average motorist. We don't drive fast, most commutes are on A/B roads, we don't experience many tyre problems what ever we buy.

I can only assume tyre dust is something to do with pollution from tyre wear, if so no one seems to be making Joe Public aware of it.

I think this is more of an issue with the specialists.

Sustainability is the new buzz word. But if you strip it right back what or who is using the most tyres?
There was an interesting stat stating a car is only used 4-7% of the day and then is static. But who makes you do that 4-7% ?
But if you look at the road surface it will dictate the level of wear you have.

 

[USER1999]

No, it's a big environmental issue. Micro plastic particles in the fish we eat for instance. Some of this is from tyre wear, washed into the rivers, and then the sea.

 

[harpo_72]

No, it's a big environmental issue. Micro plastic particles in the fish we eat for instance. Some of this is from tyre wear, washed into the rivers, and then the sea.

Yup that’s it, but the question is and it’s not answered. Are we circulating stuff that is already there or someone else’s .. buses and trucks for example

 

[USER1999]

Yup that’s it, but the question is and it’s not answered. Are we circulating stuff that is already there or someone else’s .. buses and trucks for example

Well tyre compounds will have an effect, as will breaking habits, and driving style. The gross weight will also come into it, so yes, HGV and buses will be a bigger influence, buses esp ax they stop so often, but from lesser speeds, but either less miles per person, or just less of them on the road? Who knows. Certainly a car sat on a driveway is contributing zip. A hot run taxi, alot more so.
Job for a University study I guess.

 

[USER1999]

I don't think that answers his question ?

I think it does.

 

[SocketRocket]

Sustainability is the new buzz word. But if you strip it right back what or who is using the most tyres?
There was an interesting stat stating a car is only used 4-7% of the day and then is static. But who makes you do that 4-7% ?
But if you look at the road surface it will dictate the level of wear you have.

Who uses most is quite complex, there are a very large number of vehicles doing a small amount of travel and a smaller number doing a large amount. There is also the complexity of a heavy vehicle doing many miles but on larger tyres. I guess someone understands these equations.

The question of who makes or influences you to do the miles is also rather complex, individual preferences come into play and I guess the way commercial forces affect our preferences. Probably one for the data miners.

I'm not clear what you mean when you say road surface will dictate the wear you have, surely that is a bit of a variable, well it certainly seems like it when driving on Herefordshire's roads ?

 

[SocketRocket]

I think it does.

Really? You knowing about Tyre Dust doesn't answer the question of how many people understand it.

 

[harpo_72]

Well tyre compounds will have an effect, as will breaking habits, and driving style. The gross weight will also come into it, so yes, HGV and buses will be a bigger influence, buses esp ax they stop so often, but from lesser speeds, but either less miles per person, or just less of them on the road? Who knows. Certainly a car sat on a driveway is contributing zip. A hot run taxi, alot more so.
Job for a University study I guess.

There was an article in autocar mentioning a company called analytics.. but dare I say it, felt like a panic mongering with some output numbers. But it does need to be measured and urban areas really are the key areas.
What people don’t really know is that classification of tyres is at 25 degrees c and as the temp drops it gets worse so it’s highly likely the wear rate is worse.