Stroke And Distance Query....putting

[tobybarker]

New ish to golf and to club membership, so have been spending time reading the rules (seems like a prudent move)

Anyway, the other day (in 45mph winds) I managed to putt from 4 feet right off the green and into some nasty bumpy grass....I considered it well nigh impossible to get down in less that 3 shots from there. However I now had a better idea as to the line for the original putt. Obviously I just played it where it ended up, but the rules also say that you may take stroke and distance anywhere on the course.

Could I have done so, replacing the ball where the first putt was taken from? The pro in the shop couldn't quote the reason why not, though we all agreed that surely you cant do so in this situation.....

Sorry if its a stupid question, but I joined the forum to ask such things that a beginner asks.

 

[Cake]

New ish to golf and to club membership, so have been spending time reading the rules (seems like a prudent move)

Anyway, the other day (in 45mph winds) I managed to putt from 4 feet right off the green and into some nasty bumpy grass....I considered it well nigh impossible to get down in less that 3 shots from there. However I now had a better idea as to the line for the original putt. Obviously I just played it where it ended up, but the rules also say that you may take stroke and distance anywhere on the course.

Could I have done so, replacing the ball where the first putt was taken from? The pro in the shop couldn't quote the reason why not, though we all agreed that surely you cant do so in this situation.....

Sorry if its a stupid question, but I joined the forum to ask such things that a beginner asks.

Pretty sure you just declare the ball ‘unplayable’ and replace for a penalty... never seen it done but reckon it’s within the rules

 

[robinthehood]

Yes, its fine.

 

[chrisd]

Welcome to the mad house

Yep, you can always declare the ball unplayable and return to where you last played from

 

[tobybarker]

If that's so, I am surprised its not done now and then at Augusta...mind you our greens are Augusta-esque sometimes.

One other query if I may: I make putt A from the green. (I didn't mark, lift and replace my ball prior to putt A). Then the wind moves it after putt A has come to rest. I have to play putt B where it ends up....
a) if it ends up in the hole due to the wind is that just my good fortune?
b) if it gets blown off the green, if I then wish to take S&D as in my first question, where would I replace the ball: where it finishes up after the wind moves it, where it was before the wind moved it or where I putted putt A from?

 

[rulefan]

If that's so, I am surprised its not done now and then at Augusta...mind you our greens are Augusta-esque sometimes.

There is a notable example of Woods over putting into a water hazard. Relief from the WH would have meant playing from the far side in this case. So he took S&D back on the green.

 

[Swango1980]

If that's so, I am surprised its not done now and then at Augusta...mind you our greens are Augusta-esque sometimes.

One other query if I may: I make putt A from the green. (I didn't mark, lift and replace my ball prior to putt A). Then the wind moves it after putt A has come to rest. I have to play putt B where it ends up....
a) if it ends up in the hole due to the wind is that just my good fortune?
b) if it gets blown off the green, if I then wish to take S&D as in my first question, where would I replace the ball: where it finishes up after the wind moves it, where it was before the wind moved it or where I putted putt A from?

a) Yes
b) From where you played Putt A, not from where it initially came to rest, as you never played a stroke from that point.

Why you don't see this at Augusta? Because the professionals are generally pretty good from anywhere. If their putt was for a 3, and they ended up putting it off the green, they'd still fancy their chances of getting a 5 from there, at worst a 6 (and at best maybe holing out for a 4). If they took stroke and distance, at best they could get a 5 and if it was a tricky putt, more likely a 6 (or worse). So, I'd only see them take stroke and distance if they had a brain freeze with a really simple putt that they know they could make second time around, but if it was that simple how likely is it that it would end up off the green in a horrific position anyway?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Your ball does not have to be unplayable to be able to invoke stroke and distance. You can invoke S&D at any time - regardless of where your ball is sitting or the shot you face. This is solely at the discretion of the player. We do not have to justify taking S&D to anyone. We just say 'I am taking S&D' and then take it.

And so you can putt off the green and be slap bang in the middle of the approach or fairway - sitting beautifully - but if for your own reasons you don't fancy your shot back, then - if you want, you can take S&D and put your ball back on the green at the spot you putted from.

Another example from my own track. On our 7th, from close to the hole but above it on a slick and fiercely downward sloping green, I could putt off the green into a greenside bunker and be right under the face with no shot. I have to hack out sideways then have a tricky shot back on - assuming I get back on OK and I then take two putts. So faced with four to get down I take S&D and put my ball back on the green. I then have a putt that if holed will see me having got down in three from where I was.

 

[tobybarker]

Thanks guys.... I'm surprised the pro didn't know

 

[rulefan]

If that's so, I am surprised its not done now and then at Augusta...

2005 Masters

 

[woody69]

Thanks guys.... I'm surprised the pro didn't know

I'm not.

 

[sunshine]

If that's so, I am surprised its not done now and then at Augusta...mind you our greens are Augusta-esque sometimes.

Seen this a number of times at the Masters, in particular the 11th green where it's not difficult to putt it into the water when pin is left side usually on Thursday or Friday.

 

[louise_a]

interesting thread, last year in the very dry weather I was about 12 feet above the hole hit the putt a tad too hard and it went off the green and 50yds back down the fairway, why didn't I declare unplayable and have another go at the putt, even though I knew the rule I never gave it a thought at the time.

 

[rulie]

And there is no need to declare it unplayable. Rule 18.1 clearly says that "At any time, a player may take stroke-and-distance relief...."

 

[Colin L]

And there is no need to declare it unplayable. Rule 18.1 clearly says that "At any time, a player may take stroke-and-distance relief...."

And as an aside to the S&D topic that, the rules do not require the player to "declare" a ball unplayable before taking unplayable relief.

 

[jim8flog]

If that's so, I am surprised its not done now and then at Augusta...mind you our greens are Augusta-esque sometimes.

One other query if I may: I make putt A from the green. (I didn't mark, lift and replace my ball prior to putt A). Then the wind moves it after putt A has come to rest. I have to play putt B where it ends up....
a) if it ends up in the hole due to the wind is that just my good fortune?
b) if it gets blown off the green, if I then wish to take S&D as in my first question, where would I replace the ball: where it finishes up after the wind moves it, where it was before the wind moved it or where I putted putt A from?

Q a) It is your good fortune but it still counts as shot because the ball did not drop in the hole with 10 seconds of coming to rest after the putt.

 

[tobybarker]

Q a) It is your good fortune but it still counts as shot because the ball did not drop in the hole with 10 seconds of coming to rest after the putt.

So, if it goes in after 10 seconds it's a stroke, if it blows off the green after 10 seconds it isn't?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

interesting thread, last year in the very dry weather I was about 12 feet above the hole hit the putt a tad too hard and it went off the green and 50yds back down the fairway, why didn't I declare unplayable and have another go at the putt, even though I knew the rule I never gave it a thought at the time.

We have same situation, on our 5th - with front edge 10ft or so above the fairway. The green slopes steadily down back to front with a fairly steep drop off the first 10ft of the green. If flag is close to the break at the front and your ball is above the hole - you can be just a few feet from the flag and then find your ball away back towards the fairway - faced with a really tricky pitch back up to the green - knowing you don;t really want to go far past the flag and be faced with a new longer putt back - and if you are too cute the ball ends up back at your feet. So good choice is to put ball back on the green where you putted from - with better idea of your line and weight.

But it costs you two shots to then be faced with that putt again - and that's not a great thought...so I rarely take the S&D option.

it's not unplayable. Never has to be for S&D. But it's a damn tricky shot to be faced with if trying to get down in two.

 

[rulie]

Q a) It is your good fortune but it still counts as shot because the ball did not drop in the hole with 10 seconds of coming to rest after the putt.

That is just not true. The 10 seconds noted in the Rules is only applicable if your ball is overhanging the lip of the hole. If the ball is not overhanging, 10 seconds is irrelevant.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And as an aside to the S&D topic that, the rules do not require the player to "declare" a ball unplayable before taking unplayable relief.

Didn't realise that there was such as thing as unplayable relief.