Sparky/Gas Hob Question

[Mudball]

We have a Baumatic Gas Hob... its 15 yr old and suddenly the ignition seems to have stopped working on all 4 of the hobs.. none of the cookers are lighting up. There seems to be power in the ring unit since the oven underneath it working. I tried to google it but no luck. It was put in by the prev owner so no docs available either. It is a Buamatic B68SS and cant find anything online. Mrs wont let me touch it unless i know what I am doing.

 

[Lazkir]

If all of them have stopped it's likely to be the igniter box. This is the unit that generates the power for the spark that ignites the gas.
Do the rings light up and stay alight if lit with a match?

Oh, the oven unit below it will be a completely separate appliance with it's own power supply, nothing to do with that hob at all.
Double check that the socket for the hob hasn't been accidentally turned off, it's such a common occurrence.

 

[Rlburnside]

Does sound like igniter box, this happened to mine and I ordered a new one just waiting for a the gas company to start normal work to come and fit it.

 

[Mudball]

If all of them have stopped it's likely to be the igniter box. This is the unit that generates the power for the spark that ignites the gas.
Do the rings light up and stay alight if lit with a match?

Yes rings currently lighting up and functioning normally. So we gone a bit traditional with the matchstick

Oh, the oven unit below it will be a completely separate appliance with it's own power supply, nothing to do with that hob at all.
Double check that the socket for the hob hasn't been accidentally turned off, it's such a common occurrence.

Put my arm around the cabinets to access the switches.. and i have been doing this for 5 odd years, but did not know there were 2 switches!! .. unfortunately, it is switched on. Unlike the oven, no cable/socket... its just a switch. I would have thought there is a fuse somewhere

Does sound like igniter box, this happened to mine and I ordered a new one just waiting for a the gas company to start normal work to come and fit it.

Where is the ignitor box? i m assuming that i will have to take the top panel off!!. That will need some serious negotaition with the Mrs

 

[Lazkir]

The Hob is usually the 13a plug, the oven is often hardwired in via the 25A socket and switch unit.
Double check the hob connection, confirm that it is/isn't the plug (which is off in your pic). If it is the plug check the fuse, maybe even try a different socket or try a different appliance in the socket to ensure it is working.

I wouldn't even think about doing the igniter box, it's just not worth removing the hob unit and stripping it down. A proper engineer would cost quite a bit to do this and would probably just advise you to buy a flexy lighter and use that as it wouldn't be economically viable.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Baumatic went pop a while ago.The original part is listed as obsolete, with its replacement listed at £85 SRP.
Personally I would check the fuse hasn’t gone in the plug, but if it’s ok either buy a piezo spark generator for about £5 or buy a new hob.
Just remember that the delivery pipe into each hob can be in a different location and possibly even fitting Which would mean a gas fitter adjusting the pipe work.

 

[Fade and Die]

Yes rings currently lighting up and functioning normally. So we gone a bit traditional with the matchstick



Put my arm around the cabinets to access the switches.. and i have been doing this for 5 odd years, but did not know there were 2 switches!! .. unfortunately, it is switched on. Unlike the oven, no cable/socket... its just a switch. I would have thought there is a fuse somewhere

View attachment 31422




Where is the ignitor box? i m assuming that i will have to take the top panel off!!. That will need some serious negotaition with the Mrs

Just to repeat what Lazkir said the Socket outlet in your photo is OFF. Try running an extension lead to the hob and plugging it in just to prove there is power at the outlet.

 

[Mudball]

The Hob is usually the 13a plug, the oven is often hardwired in via the 25A socket and switch unit.
Double check the hob connection, confirm that it is/isn't the plug (which is off in your pic). If it is the plug check the fuse, maybe even try a different socket or try a different appliance in the socket to ensure it is working.

I wouldn't even think about doing the igniter box, it's just not worth removing the hob unit and stripping it down. A proper engineer would cost quite a bit to do this and would probably just advise you to buy a flexy lighter and use that as it wouldn't be economically viable.

The plug belongs to the oven... so if i switch off (as in the pic).. the oven turns on and off. i tried a different appliance and the socket is fine. The oven is fine too.

So the Big switch belongs to the cooker/hob. is it worth opening the electric box to see if there is a fuse inside it? or replace that large switch. I am assuming regs have changed since this was put in and therefore dont know if these are still available

PS: this must be pure conjecture... yesterday, we had the lights flicker. i thought a fuse was gone. but nothing happened and the MCB box did not trip. Mrs says the ignition not working since yesterday, but she cant say if that was after/before that flicker...

if the theory goes right, then i am looking to get one of these.. (or is it just a 13Amp fuse inside the box?)
https://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-45a-...witched-socket-white-with-white-inserts/30955

 

[jim8flog]

The plug belongs to the oven... so if i switch off (as in the pic).. the oven turns on and off.

That would ring alarm bells with me, the oven should be connected to the switch that says cooker which relies on the fuse/or circuit breaker in the main box.

Just a word of warning

All fixed electrical work in kitchens and bathrooms has to be carried out by a certified Electrician.

 

[Fade and Die]

The plug belongs to the oven... so if i switch off (as in the pic).. the oven turns on and off. i tried a different appliance and the socket is fine. The oven is fine too.

So the Big switch belongs to the cooker/hob. is it worth opening the electric box to see if there is a fuse inside it? or replace that large switch. I am assuming regs have changed since this was put in and therefore dont know if these are still available

PS: this must be pure conjecture... yesterday, we had the lights flicker. i thought a fuse was gone. but nothing happened and the MCB box did not trip. Mrs says the ignition not working since yesterday, but she cant say if that was after/before that flicker...

if the theory goes right, then i am looking to get one of these.. (or is it just a 13Amp fuse inside the box?)
https://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-45a-...witched-socket-white-with-white-inserts/30955

If the big switch controls the Ignition for a gas Hob then You should just replace the unit with a double socket outlet and put a plug on the cable going to the ignition.

Edit jim beat me too it but it might be worth getting a Sparks in to sort this... or just stick with the matches!

 

[Bunkermagnet]

That would ring alarm bells with me, the oven should be connected to the switch that says cooker which relies on the fuse/or circuit breaker in the main box.

Just a word of warning

All fixed electrical work in kitchens and bathrooms has to be carried out by a certified Electrician.

The great many single ovens are only rated at 13a, so are fully complient being plugged into a socket like that. Hard wiring it into a 32a or similar circuit wouldn't give the protection running it through a 13a plug would. However the latest way is to rate the ovens at 15/16a so they need hard wiring into a suitably rated circuit.
However I do wonder at if and why the hob would be wired into a 32a or similar circuit.

 

[Lazkir]

The great many single ovens are only rated at 13a, so are fully complient being plugged into a socket like that. Hard wiring it into a 32a or similar circuit wouldn't give the protection running it through a 13a plug would. However the latest way is to rate the ovens at 15/16a so they need hard wiring into a suitably rated circuit.
However I do wonder at if and why the hob would be wired into a 32a or similar circuit.

Agree with this, especially the bib.With the 'flickering' I suspect you've lost power to the hob somehow. Regardless of where it's wired into.
First thing to do is trace and confirm where the hob wire goes and then work back from there. To be honest, those igniter boxes hardly ever go so I'd put money on it being a lack of power somewhere.

That's what I'd be checking on if I were called out to a job like this.

 

[jim8flog]

The great many single ovens are only rated at 13a, so are fully complient being plugged into a socket like that. Hard wiring it into a 32a or similar circuit wouldn't give the protection running it through a 13a plug would. However the latest way is to rate the ovens at 15/16a so they need hard wiring into a suitably rated circuit.
However I do wonder at if and why the hob would be wired into a 32a or similar circuit.

I have an all electric hob

I know my hob is very old but I would wonder if the requirement has changed in any way

" The hob should be connected to a double pole isolating switch" The same applies to my cooker.

My hob has four 'rings' with a total rating of 7000 watts = 28amps

I can understand the OPs hob being connected to a standard 13 amp plug because it is only used for the ignition circuit but from what he said when he switches the plug switch off it turns off the oven which I find very strange.

 

[Mudball]

Tnx guys... so popped my head into the cabinet to see where the cables go.. and there is nothing from the sockets that I posted before... but in the deep recess of the cabinet .. I found another socket!! No idea where that cable is going. There are no appliances in that area other than the chimney/hood. But the chimney seems to work irrespective of the socket being on or off.

This is going to be back of the corner cabinet and it is going to be a challenge to check if the fuse is blown... I checked the socket for power and it works. Now to see if I can check the fuse

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I have an all electric hob

I know my hob is very old but I would wonder if the requirement has changed in any way

" The hob should be connected to a double pole isolating switch" The same applies to my cooker.

My hob has four 'rings' with a total rating of 7000 watts = 28amps

I can understand the OPs hob being connected to a standard 13 amp plug because it is only used for the ignition circuit but from what he said when he switches the plug switch off it turns off the oven which I find very strange.

I think there is some terminolgy confusion going on here
A cooker is a free standing appliance, having an oven (or 2) and hob all in one unit (like our mums had). An oven is a built in appliance, either double cavity or single cavity. A double oven just like an all electric hob (whether solid hotplate, ceramic or induction) will need to be on a 32/45a circuit and hard wired. I will add right now, that there is 1 (that I know of) induction hob that is designed to run on a 13 plug and socket.
A single oven will generally draw 13a or less so will be able to run on a 13a plug and socket, (unless its a multifunction oven). However manufacturers have started to rate them higher at 15/16a which means they have to be hard wired and not a plug (the feeling is this is more to do with protecting themselves). Running a 13a appliance on a 32a or greater circuit will still go bang if theres an issue, but could possibly do more harm to the appliance components as the fuse breaks that much later.

As for the OP's situation, I think he might need to remove the oven to be able to verify where the hob lead goes and to what.
Welcome to the world of appliance service engineer wonderment, when you as the engineer are supposed to know where their appliance mains leads go when even they don't know or remember how they bodged it

 

[Fade and Die]

I think there is some terminolgy confusion going on here
A cooker is a free standing appliance, having an oven (or 2) and hob all in one unit (like our mums had). An oven is a built in appliance, either double cavity or single cavity. A double oven just like an all electric hob (whether solid hotplate, ceramic or induction) will need to be on a 32/45a circuit and hard wired. I will add right now, that there is 1 (that I know of) induction hob that is designed to run on a 13 plug and socket.
A single oven will generally draw 13a or less so will be able to run on a 13a plug and socket, (unless its a multifunction oven). However manufacturers have started to rate them higher at 15/16a which means they have to be hard wired and not a plug (the feeling is this is more to do with protecting themselves). Running a 13a appliance on a 32a or greater circuit will still go bang if theres an issue, but could possibly do more harm to the appliance components as the fuse breaks that much later.

As for the OP's situation, I think he might need to remove the oven to be able to verify where the hob lead goes and to what.
Welcome to the world of appliance service engineer wonderment, when you as the engineer are supposed to know where their appliance mains leads go when even they don't know or remember how they bodged it

Add to that that the electrics (and probably the plumbing and tiling!) were probably done by the kitchen fitter and you simply cannot rule anything out... Looks like a 3A fuse in that old looking white plug so it simply might be that?

 

[Mudball]

Add to that that the electrics (and probably the plumbing and tiling!) were probably done by the kitchen fitter and you simply cannot rule anything out... Looks like a 3A fuse in that old looking white plug so it simply might be that?

Took the old plug out .. it has a 3 fuse.. I don’t think I have any 3As lying around to test it... can I put a 13A in it to see if it works... I can then hop down to screwfix

 

[clubchamp98]

I have an all electric hob

I know my hob is very old but I would wonder if the requirement has changed in any way

" The hob should be connected to a double pole isolating switch" The same applies to my cooker.

My hob has four 'rings' with a total rating of 7000 watts = 28amps

I can understand the OPs hob being connected to a standard 13 amp plug because it is only used for the ignition circuit but from what he said when he switches the plug switch off it turns off the oven which I find very strange.

Could it have a junction box Lower down from the plug serving both oven and hob ignition.?
Not to clever but depends who fitted it.

 

[clubchamp98]

Took the old plug out .. it has a 3 fuse.. I don’t think I have any 3As lying around to test it... can I put a 13A in it to see if it works... I can then hop down to screwfix

Put it in a table lamp and try it.

 

[Lazkir]

Took the old plug out .. it has a 3 fuse.. I don’t think I have any 3As lying around to test it... can I put a 13A in it to see if it works... I can then hop down to screwfix

Yes it will be fine to test.