Slow Play

[Imurg]

You see it all the time on tour....a group get put on the clock, they speed up for a few holes until they're off the clock and then they go back to their normal speed..if they get clocked again they speed up and then slow down again.
The shot clock event this year showed they can play faster with no detrimental effect on the scoring.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

The simple answer is to get a ref and simply time each and every group and the time taken per player per shot and present evidence as part of the first warning and then simply get on the problem hard. If it's one player in a group it can be mentioned/resolved but the bottom line remains none of the main tours have the bottle to take a stand and a firm one, about the problem

Do you just reply and not check/read what is posted?
They had a Ref, Wallace was identified as being close to the time allowed, he was then monitored over 2 holes and warned, slow again on next hole and given fine by tour policy, from then on he did not breach the time permitted.
Are you saying even at your level you’ve never had a round were some holes are slower than others?
The punishment (regardless of amount) got in his head by his own admission, he bogeyed 2 out of the next 4 holes, he was runner-up in the comp by 2 shots, difference of 500,000 Euros.

 

[williamalex1]

You see it all the time on tour....a group get put on the clock, they speed up for a few holes until they're off the clock and then they go back to their normal speed..if they get clocked again they speed up and then slow down again.
The shot clock event this year showed they can play faster with no detrimental effect on the scoring.

As Ian Poulter showed, round in 1 hr 55 mins, 3 under and his best score of the 4 rounds. well done Poults

 

[Deleted member 16999]

You see it all the time on tour....a group get put on the clock, they speed up for a few holes until they're off the clock and then they go back to their normal speed..if they get clocked again they speed up and then slow down again.
The shot clock event this year showed they can play faster with no detrimental effect on the scoring.

I agree Ian, but people in this particular instance are getting confused between a player being done after being slow for 3 holes and the rest of his round.
The DP Tour had timelines for 18 holes and Wallace finished the 18 inside that time. The warning and punishment worked.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

As Ian Poulter showed, round in 1 hr 55 mins, 3 under and his best score of the 4 rounds. well done Poults

Not quite, 2hrs 22 minutes and he was on his own.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Do you just reply and not check/read what is posted?
They had a Ref, Wallace was identified as being close to the time allowed, he was then monitored over 2 holes and warned, slow again on next hole and given fine by tour policy, from then on he did not breach the time permitted.
Are you saying even at your level you’ve never had a round were some holes are slower than others?
The punishment (regardless of amount) got in his head by his own admission, he bogeyed 2 out of the next 4 holes, he was runner-up in the comp by 2 shots, difference of 500,000 Euros.

I read everything. My points are it has to be universal so from the first group out (who on a Sunday are very unlikely to be in contention) and treat each group the same. If there are issues which slow play down then that will need to be taken into contention. As your post proves, getting tough will impact players. As for our level, slow play is caused by a myriad of issues and until we educate ALL members to call others through at the earliest opportunity that's not changing soon

 

[williamalex1]

Not quite, 2hrs 22 minutes and he was on his own.

My mistake, did he stop at the half way hut lol, but still well done Ian

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I read everything. My points are it has to be universal so from the first group out (who on a Sunday are very unlikely to be in contention) and treat each group the same. If there are issues which slow play down then that will need to be taken into contention. As your post proves, getting tough will impact players. As for our level, slow play is caused by a myriad of issues and until we educate ALL members to call others through at the earliest opportunity that's not changing soon

Again, the European Tour are trying to address it, starting at the top, this thread was in the main complaining about the small fine, not one person acknowledged they are at least trying, each group is observed from day 1.
Each player is given a time sheet showing expected times etc.
This tournament didn’t have an issue with slow play, 1 player did and he was dealt with.

 

[Imurg]

I agree Ian, but people in this particular instance are getting confused between a player being done after being slow for 3 holes and the rest of his round.
The DP Tour had timelines for 18 holes and Wallace finished the 18 inside that time. The warning and punishment worked.

Didn't realise that...maybe that's a way forward..
Context is a big part in Pro and amateur timings.
A lost ball and a ruling can easily cause a gap to open which people could immediately imply that slow play is occurring when it's not.

 

[clubchamp98]

The simple answer is to get a ref and simply time each and every group and the time taken per player per shot and present evidence as part of the first warning and then simply get on the problem hard. If it's one player in a group it can be mentioned/resolved but the bottom line remains none of the main tours have the bottle to take a stand and a firm one, about the problem

Yes agree , it’s happened a couple of times for slow play but the tour has never penalised a top player it’s always a lower ranked player who can’t really kick up a fuss or get press headlines .
If they are serious they have to treat all the pros the same.
Remember JB Holmes last year what happened ? Nothing.

 

[clubchamp98]

Again, the European Tour are trying to address it, starting at the top, this thread was in the main complaining about the small fine, not one person acknowledged they are at least trying, each group is observed from day 1.
Each player is given a time sheet showing expected times etc.
This tournament didn’t have an issue with slow play, 1 player did and he was dealt with.[/QUOTE

 

[duncan mackie]

Yes agree , it’s happened a couple of times for slow play but the tour has never penalised a top player it’s always a lower ranked player who can’t really kick up a fuss or get press headlines .
If they are serious they have to treat all the pros the same.
Remember JB Holmes last year what happened ? Nothing.

Not a lot of point putting JB on the clock for the 19th was there?

In the context of this thread the important issue is whether the action taken was consistent with the relevant rules - in this case the DP tour hard card (I don't have a copy so can't comment).
The second point becomes whether that rule is sufficient - as it wouldn't prevent a JB Holmes moment, or even provide a platform for penalty in that instance, the implication is that it isn't, but most agree that there needs to be some warning mechanism before an absolute rule kicks in...so you are back where you started.
Some comments were made about SG in a recent event, and how slow and tedious it all looked. I agree, which was one of the reasons I was running a shot clock on him through the rounds. I was surprised that he almost never went over 24 sec - certainly wasn't pushing the 30 / 40 sec barriers.
Generally the more experienced players don't fall foul of the rule, especially the slower ones! It's inexperience that will lead to a penalty in that area. However, its also true that the players well know that the US tour is extremely weak on the issue overall - the subjective assessment of when a player is in a position to play, and any shot clock started, combined with external factors such as crowd disturbances, make slam dunk penalties almost impossible and history has shown how quickly players will go to litigation on the one hand, and crowds and pundits hate rulings that influence the outcome of the event on the other.

 

[Pathetic Shark]

I'd love to see this introduced at my club. Although a £3,000 fine for slow play in a medal may be tough to get through the next committee meeting.

 

[clubchamp98]

Not a lot of point putting JB on the clock for the 19th was there?

In the context of this thread the important issue is whether the action taken was consistent with the relevant rules - in this case the DP tour hard card (I don't have a copy so can't comment).
The second point becomes whether that rule is sufficient - as it wouldn't prevent a JB Holmes moment, or even provide a platform for penalty in that instance, the implication is that it isn't, but most agree that there needs to be some warning mechanism before an absolute rule kicks in...so you are back where you started.
Some comments were made about SG in a recent event, and how slow and tedious it all looked. I agree, which was one of the reasons I was running a shot clock on him through the rounds. I was surprised that he almost never went over 24 sec - certainly wasn't pushing the 30 / 40 sec barriers.
Generally the more experienced players don't fall foul of the rule, especially the slower ones! It's inexperience that will lead to a penalty in that area. However, its also true that the players well know that the US tour is extremely weak on the issue overall - the subjective assessment of when a player is in a position to play, and any shot clock started, combined with external factors such as crowd disturbances, make slam dunk penalties almost impossibleence and history has shown how quickly players will go to litigation on the one hand, and crowds and pundits hate rulings that influence the outcome of the event on the other.

No but the big question at the time was did JBs actions affect his playing partners next shot.!
Imo it did.
Taking that long should be an instant penalty NO warning , but that rule will need to be put in place.

So in essence this summary means there’s nothing they can do really,
As the players are taking the rules to the max.
And only the ones who lack experience will be punished.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

So in essence this summary means there’s nothing they can do really,
As the players are taking the rules to the max.
And only the ones who lack experience will be punished.

No different to real life then!