Sir Nigel Farage?

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drdel said:
By objecting to 'partners' who decide on some rules, which we then accept and implement which they decide to ignore while we pick up the tab - with partners like that you don't need enemies.

I'm afraid you put your trust on the wrong side. Our 'partners' decided to sneakily tip the notional level playing field.
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It's this sort of paranoia that blighted our time in the Eu.
 
FairwayDodger said:
I have to disagree, we were never wholehearted participants and that's a shame.
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So, France didn't even want us in, they colluded with Germany and didn't enforce any EU directives that they didn't like. It didn't start as an equal partnership so how would we be wholehearted?
 
chrisd said:
So, France didn't even want us in, they colluded with Germany and didn't enforce any EU directives that they didn't like. It didn't start as an equal partnership so how would we be wholehearted?
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With different countries having differing numbers of votes in the EU parliament it has never been about equal. Germany have something like 96 votes, whilst the next four countries have somewhere in the 70's. The smaller countries have as little as 11 votes.

A level playing field it's never been, further compounded by the smaller countries creating voting blocs to counter the bigger countries.

Fair? No way.
 
FairwayDodger said:
It's this sort of paranoia that blighted our time in the Eu.
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No paranoia here - I wonder if you ever had any direct experience of working on projects that involved representatives of the 27; I can tell you from direct experience of chairing many EU activities that the stereotypes are alive and well!
 
chrisd said:
So, France didn't even want us in, they colluded with Germany and didn't enforce any EU directives that they didn't like. It didn't start as an equal partnership so how would we be wholehearted?
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The UK's problem was that our Civil Service dutifully Gold plated and Copper bottomed all EU Directives and then rigorously enforced them, unlike the French who just ignored the ones they didn't like!
 
delc said:
The UK's problem was that our Civil Service dutifully Gold plated and Copper bottomed all EU Directives and then rigorously enforced them, unlike the French who just ignored the ones they didn't like!
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Countries were supposed to enforce them, its not the fault of our Civil Servants for doing so but other countries barely got a slap on the wrist for not doing so - we were not equal partners!
 
Hobbit said:
With different countries having differing numbers of votes in the EU parliament it has never been about equal. Germany have something like 96 votes, whilst the next four countries have somewhere in the 70's. The smaller countries have as little as 11 votes.

A level playing field it's never been, further compounded by the smaller countries creating voting blocs to counter the bigger countries.

Fair? No way.
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I understand that the number of seats in the European Parliament is proportional to the population of each country. What is unfair about that? I believe that the smaller countries collectively can outvote the bigger countries like Germany and France. To reiterate a point made by Michael Heseltine, us pulling out of the EU leaves Germany as the dominant European Nation. Did my Father's generation really fight for that? 🙄
 
delc said:
The UK's problem was that our Civil Service dutifully Gold plated and Copper bottomed all EU Directives and then rigorously enforced them, unlike the French who just ignored the ones they didn't like!
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So, the UK are at fault for following the rules of the 'club.'

And you you want us to stay in a club in which our subs are significantly higher than those paid by every other member bar Germany, and many of the other members take the money and take the P.

The EU could be fantastic, but without change it's flawed.
 
delc said:
I understand that the number of seats in the European Parliament is proportional to the population of each country. What is unfair about that? I believe that the smaller countries collectively can outvote the bigger countries like Germany and France. To reiterate a point made by Michael Heseltine, us pulling out of the EU leaves Germany as the dominant European Nation. Did my Father's generation really fight for that? 
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Germany and France together have about 170 votes. Try Google and see how many small countries would need to band together to beat that voting bloc.

You really are clueless aren't you.
 
chrisd said:
Quitting the EU has absolutely nothing to do with the war
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Being in the EU has everything to do with avoiding any future European wars! That was the whole point of the United States of Europe concept put forward by Winston Churchill and others. It was always the intention to move towards closer political union, so I don't understand why people object to this. Being in the EU has never made feel me any less English or British!
 
Hobbit said:
Germany and France together have about 170 votes. Try Google and see how many small countries would need to band together to beat that voting bloc.

You really are clueless aren't you.
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For the record, number of MEP's per country:
Germany 99 (reducing to 96 in 2018)
France 74
UK 73
Italy 73
Spain 54
Poland 51
Romania 33
Netherlands 26
Greece 22
Portugal 22
Czech Rupublic 22
Hungary 22
Sweden 20
Austria 19
Bulgaria 18
Denmark 13
Finland 13
Ireland 12
Croatia 12
Lithuania 12
Latvia 9
Slovenia 8
Estonia, Cyprus, Luxembourg and Malta 6 each.
 
Old Skier said:
You know history isn't your strong point. As it didn't work in the past how will it in the future. You failed to answer it before, nows your chance.
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Well we had two World Wars involving Britain and Germany as the main protagonists in the first 45 years of the 20th Century, but nothing much in the 72 years since, a fair part of which we have been in the EEC or the EU as an ally of Germany. Doesn't that say it all?
 
chrisd said:
So, France didn't even want us in, they colluded with Germany and didn't enforce any EU directives that they didn't like. It didn't start as an equal partnership so how would we be wholehearted?
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Amazingly brexiters that bleat on about how remainers should get behind brexit can't see that maybe a more positive attitude from us to the EU would have made a huge difference.

That's my point, we never committed so no wonder we had an antagonistic relationship with the main players in the EU when we should have stood shoulder to shoulder with them.

All our problems with the EU are more our fault than theirs, IMO of course!
 
Hobbit said:
With different countries having differing numbers of votes in the EU parliament it has never been about equal. Germany have something like 96 votes, whilst the next four countries have somewhere in the 70's. The smaller countries have as little as 11 votes.

A level playing field it's never been, further compounded by the smaller countries creating voting blocs to counter the bigger countries.

Fair? No way.
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Isn't that democracy, the number of votes determined by size of population? Should Denmark have as many votes as Germany?
 
FairwayDodger said:
Amazingly brexiters that bleat on about how remainers should get behind brexit can't see that maybe a more positive attitude from us to the EU would have made a huge difference.

That's my point, we never committed so no wonder we had an antagonistic relationship with the main players in the EU when we should have stood shoulder to shoulder with them.

All our problems with the EU are more our fault than theirs, IMO of course!
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This is total rubbish it would appear you have no idea. You insult most of the professionals of the UK involved in the EU. Most of the people from the UK I worked with on EU project were commited and enthusiastic. If the EU wanted things done properly then it was usually the Brits they turned to to run the projects.
 
drdel said:
This is total rubbish it would appear you have no idea. You insult most of the professionals of the UK involved in the EU. Most of the people from the UK I worked with on EU project were commited and enthusiastic. If the EU wanted things done properly then it was usually the Brits they turned to to run the projects.
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Yes, but Fairway Dodger was making the point that many Brits were/are indifferent to the advantages of being in the EU and regard it as holding us back, or being something to blame for the failures of our own Government. These notions have been greatly stoked up by Nigel Farage and the right wing gutter press. Unfortunately the Sun, Mail and Express have a much bigger readership than the more pro-EU Guardian and Independent!
 
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