Saving English Golf on SSN

Ha ha! Just back from the pub with the wife as all Scots alcoholics!

The point I am trying to make is that there are too many barriers stopping people taking up the game. I dont give a flying f if people want to wear jeans and a t shirt. More fool them I say as jeans aren't good for any sport but then again neither are chinos, in my opinion.

But that is my opinion so who am I to tell someone else what to wear playing golf, unless it damages the course.

My wife laughs at me when I co-ordinate my gear right down to the shoes. All the gear and no idea is me.

However to call a polo shirt and trousers as traditional is a joke. Traditional as far back as the 1950's. Probably when your parents or you were born and the values you were brought up on.

The future of the game is with youth not boring old farts like me and you.

Get a life guys, you only have one. Worry about your own game as Jack says
 
The intolerance and attitude of some in this thread just sums up the image golf has.

Me and my mates were laughing in almost disbelief in the pub last night at this.

Basically do as your told, don't question our traditions, go away

Anyway I'm off for a round of golf
 
SocketRocket said:
I gave you an answer now go away.
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For someone who said they were out of this thread almost 5 hours before the above post, you spent a hypocritically long time in it imo!

I happen to believe that it's the economy and lack of foresight that's causing clubs more problems than dress codes. Seems to me that it happens to the more stuffy ones anyway but that's only because of their 'inertia'.

Have to say that I believe in certain standards for apparel, though I've been criticised for looking scruffy in gear that would pass any club's acceptability test (my cold weather cords). Not keen on T-shirts for golf and jeans are wrong for golf anyway. Some sort of reference-able standard is needed if a club wants to present a certain 'stamp' on their facilities. To simply say 'traditional' is not specific enough as these do actually change. Polo shirt and trousers would certainly not have been acceptable a while ago!

As for 'saving' English golf... 'Let the market sort it out' would be my normal view, though that depends on the ability of people to move quickly and cheaply between clubs, something that, not too unreasonably, doesn't happen with golf clubs (as the investment involved is quite serious).
 
Foxholer said:
For someone who said they were out of this thread almost 5 hours before the above post, you spent a hypocritically long time in it imo!

I happen to believe that it's the economy and lack of foresight that's causing clubs more problems than dress codes. Seems to me that it happens to the more stuffy ones anyway but that's only because of their 'inertia'.

Have to say that I believe in certain standards for apparel, though I've been criticised for looking scruffy in gear that would pass any club's acceptability test (my cold weather cords). Not keen on T-shirts for golf and jeans are wrong for golf anyway. Some sort of reference-able standard is needed if a club wants to present a certain 'stamp' on their facilities. To simply say 'traditional' is not specific enough as these do actually change. Polo shirt and trousers would certainly not have been acceptable a while ago!

As for 'saving' English golf... 'Let the market sort it out' would be my normal view, though that depends on the ability of people to move quickly and cheaply between clubs, something that, not too unreasonably, doesn't happen with golf clubs (as the investment involved is quite serious).
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With respect, I wanted to end the conversation as it did'nt seem to be going anywhere but he kept insisting I answered his question. I did then he asked me the same question again. The problem seemed to be that my answer wasnt what he wanted.
 
SocketRocket said:
With respect, I wanted to end the conversation as it did'nt seem to be going anywhere but he kept insisting I answered his question. I did then he asked me the same question again. The problem seemed to be that my answer wasnt what he wanted.
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No you didn't!

I am not looking for an answer per se. You wear what you want, doesn't bother me as it doesn't bother me what anyone else wears.

It obviously bothers you for no other reason that it doesn't fit in with your own view of traditional, which we have established is circa 1950.

The point that SSN, myself and others are trying to make is that club golf is in serious decline and how can that be reversed and attract new players to the game.

Youth is the future but if you frighten them away with rules and regulations that have no basis or foundation other than old people say it doesn't fit in with traditions.

Bring down the silly barriers, encourage good manners,etiquette, respect for fellow players and above all have fun
 
bluewolf said:
I agree that the dress code should adapt, but I don't want it relaxed overly on course. In the clubhouse is a different matter though.

I had a run in myself this week with a committee member. He decided to report me for bringing too many guests to the course (not all at once I might add). He didn't quite have the nerve to say it to my face though. Now, the 3 guests who I regularly play with are going to join elsewhere this year, and will be joined by me next year. Well done sir, you've just cost the club over 3 grand per year.
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have you seen the light blue wolf and coming to ROYAL ASHTON !!!!!!!
 
it always seems strange how the most opinionated appear intollerant to other's opinions, and their rules implemented around those opinions.

fwiw mine are as follows -

1. the underlying issue is financial, with an overlay of demography.

this doesn't get resolved by providing free golf to juniors because, on balance, they will move away and may not be able to afford to play when you want money from them either. There is some argument for introducing more people to the sport overall, but in itself it won't solve these issues.

2. There are clubs with jacket and tie in the resteraunt, and the main bar after, say, 1600h/1800h etc.

Their resteraunt's are full, the memberships are (still closed) they don't permit 4 balls (ever), require long socks. That's why people join them - and why some will never play them. Not an issue that I can see.

3. However, some members clubs and some propriatory clubs are struggling with their target markets.

Down south oversupply from the large developments in the '90s has meant that traditional clubs have been unable to command a premium based on supply/demand and, just at the time they realised this and reduced their prices a little the propriatory clubs started cutting prices to the bone (and beyond), sadly often associated with cutting the quality (of the course) as well. Cheap, available to all golf on poor quality courses doesn't seem like progress to me - and doesn't bode well for the future either.
Scotland seems to have a different dynamic with historically low course costs. However demography is seeing the underlying memberships decline away from the major population centres and they haven't all been visitor friendly in the past! Some reinvented themselves really well, others are happy as they are and, again, it's the middle that are facing the real issues.

I also think that 'shirt' without a collar is an oximoron - but that's another issue
 
Interesting thread..

As a guy who can wear jeans and a hoody to work (oh the joys of working in I.T!), i do like that golf has standards, for me i wear chinos/black trousers with a polo shirt, it's not difficult!

I agree with the jacket and tie rules for the club house are a bit out dated, however i wouldn't be keen on seeing jeans in the club house either.

It's difficult to get a middle ground between the young guys and the old guys, but IMO at the moment it's about right on the golf course (apart from knee length socks, i mean who even owns a pair!!) but the club house at most courses is way off....

I've been looking at joining clubs on the essex boarder, i'm fortunate to already be very established into the game of golf (around the 12 handicap mark, been playing most of my life) so the idea of interviews and trial rounds don't phase me, however to a person learning to play - it's just ridiculous!
 
is it not a matter of choice,i chose to join the club im a member of,i knew it was £1000 to join and £850 per year green fee,i knew all the rules set out before i joined i knew i had to be interviewed prior to joining so what is the problem,if that criteria does not fit the bill for you so what go somewhere else,it is your choice but stop having a go at clubs that try to keep traditions.I think most of the posts that seem to think every club should be getting down with the kids are coming from people who have joined a club and are trying to change the rules my question is why did you join in the first place,as for dress code what is wrong with wearing proper golf clothes who in their right mind thinks jeans and a t-shirt is proper dress code to play in or to go into the club house,its all about standers and if you don't like them don't join or better still go to a muni and stop having a go at the likes of me who enjoys the club just the way it is.
 
SAPCOR1 said:
No you didn't!

I am not looking for an answer per se. You wear what you want, doesn't bother me as it doesn't bother me what anyone else wears.

It obviously bothers you for no other reason that it doesn't fit in with your own view of traditional, which we have established is circa 1950.

The point that SSN, myself and others are trying to make is that club golf is in serious decline and how can that be reversed and attract new players to the game.

Youth is the future but if you frighten them away with rules and regulations that have no basis or foundation other than old people say it doesn't fit in with traditions.

Bring down the silly barriers, encourage good manners,etiquette, respect for fellow players and above all have fun
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Read your previous posts, you said if I answered your question you would "go away, Honest!" Did you not?

You established that a polo shirt and trousers was circa 1950's tradition, don't suggest that "We" established it. It's not "my" tradition either, it's the tradition of the game. Look at the Masters today and see how many players are wearing it, i'll tell you how many. All of them.

Regarding younger players. My club has a large thriving junior section, these kids don' t mind wearing golfing clothes and abiding by the rules, as a matter of fact they seem to be very comfortable with it, there is such a wide range of stylish golfing gear these days to suit anyone. What you must do to encourage youth into golf is to encourage them to play, help them, coach them, teach them how to respect others and play the game the way it is meant to be played.

As I mentioned earlier, there are very few clubs that demand you wear a jacket and tie these days (other than for formal occasions) Knee length socks with shorts are almost extinct. My club is a fairly traditional members club but has dispensed with the things I just mentioned and is thriving with a full membership.

My opinion is that there is by and large nothing wrong with the way clubs run these days, you have the choice to play in the kind of environment you like and the opportunity to change things if you wish.
 
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SocketRocket said:
Read your previous posts, you said if I answered your question you would "go away, Honest!" Did you not?

You established that a polo shirt and trousers was circa 1950's tradition, don't suggest that "We" established it. It's not "my" tradition either, it's the tradition of the game. Look at the Masters today and see how many players are wearing it, i'll tell you how many. All of them.

Regarding younger players. My club has a large thriving junior section, these kids don' t mind wearing golfing clothes and abiding by the rules, as a matter of fact they seem to be very comfortable with it, there is such a wide range of stylish golfing gear these days to suit anyone. What you must do to encourage youth into golf is to encourage them to play, help them, coach them, teach them how to respect others and play the game the way it is meant to be played.

As I mentioned earlier, there are very few clubs that demand you wear a jacket and tie these days (other than for formal occasions) Knee length socks with shorts are almost extinct. My club is a fairly traditional members club but has dispensed with the things I just mentioned and is thriving with a full membership.

My opinion is that there is by and large nothing wrong with the way clubs run these days, you have the choice to play in the kind of environment you like and the opportunity to change things if you wish.
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It's me back again...

You didn't read my posts, I said many times that I wouldn't wear jeans for golf or any other sport, same with chinos. Both heavy cotton fabrics that absorb and retain moisture, be it rain or sweat.

I wear polos and trousers and I am a poser who has all the gear and no idea right down to matching socks and shoes.

If someone else wants to wear them then it's none of my business, either on course or in the bar afterwards.

What I have been saying is that people hide behind "tradition" or "standards" with no logical reasons

Unfortunately a lot of clubs are not run well, hence declining numbers, course closures.

Follow Al Dunsmuir on Twitter Or check out the EGU, SSN etc
 
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