Rounds getting longer - Why.

[Oddsocks]

In the things i miss thread hobbit stated a very good point.

3.15hr fourball rounds. They never felt fast but by comparision to today...

but the question is why>?

With clubs being longer, better, straighter etc in theory courses should be easier to play, for example more people hitting par 5's in 2 etc, generally people are taking fitness more serious so the pace of walking should be quicker, yet rounds of golf are taking longer and longer.

Example. As a kid i caddied at the addington, a good course but with lots of hills the olds boys struggled. Our regular saturday 4 ball was made up of a

76 year old off 18, not long but accurate, (used a caddy)
early 60's off 11/12, not long but awesome short game and consistent. (my main man)
*these two always played together,*
Then there would always be 2 others off between 10-18, in their 60's and atleast 1 would have a caddy, the other if no caddy would use an electric trolley.

So the average age in the group is mid to late 60's, at least 3 caddies ball spotting, tending pins etc we could go off at 8:30 and would be back in by 12/12:15 max. average time of 3:30/3:45, this was around the time of ping eye 2 woods, and just as callaway were breaking in with the big bertha series so not long hitting technology,

Now take recently We have been playing there on and off in 2011, and in generally the course has got easier. alot of the heather has gone, the woods have all been raked, making ball finding alot easier, yet even as a 3 ball we cant break 4hours around this course, its normally more like 4:30.

Me, 12hc, 32 and thanks to this forum someone who is always looking at pace of play
mate 1, 16hc, 33, pretty straight just poor short game
mate 2, 40, 20hc, very steady pretty fit and complete with powercaddy.

Now looking at the points of where our drives land verses the guys i used to caddy for, the 20hc player is about there or there about's, while me and the 16hc player are both about 30/40 yards if not more ahead, on some holes as much as 75 yards.What

is causing rounds to be get so bloody slow!

 

[ArnoldArmChewer]

I find that a lot of players are simply not ready to play, rather than consider club selection whilst walking up to the ball they spend a lot of time checking distance, wind, lie etc, nothing wrong with that but it can take up time, being ready to play when its your turn often seems an issue + placement of equipment around greens.

That said I reckon as a 4 ball on a Sunday morning we go round generally in 4 hours including a cup of tea + bacon sandwich

 

[chris661]

A lot of handicap golfers see the pros on the telly and think they can play like them and take 6 hours a round also as mentioned hardly anyone is ready to play when it is time.

 

[Andy]

Players being ignorant. Hitting a 5 yard top, then standing admiring it. Taking 3 practice swings to work out why it happened. Then walking along chatting like a knitting bee holding up playing partners. Checking GPS devices for distance although they have probably already chosen the club they will hit in their head.

Same thing happens on greens attempting to read every borrow when a general look would suffice. Leaving clubs on wrong side of green.

Not playing a provisional as if it's an embaressment to have to hit one. Taking longer than 5 mins to look for a ball and failing to wave the game behind through on arriving roughly where the lost ball may be.

There are lots of reasons but in my opinion the vast majority are just ignorance to etiquette and following groups.

The vast majority need a boot in the hole and told to get on with it !

 

[AllyLodge]

I was behind a 4 ball yesterday and they were really slow because every putt they marked and read the line , even 1 footers. It wasn't even a competition.

-Ally

 

[fundy]

Ther big issue for me is that 4.5 or 5 hrs is deemed acceptable by a lot of people these days. Have got that frustrated with it before christmas that i put a load of recommendations to combat it in writing to our committee - when players think 4hrs 50 for a 3 ball in a medal is acceptable its gone way too far

 

[AmandaJR]

I was behind a 4 ball yesterday and they were really slow because every putt they marked and read the line , even 1 footers. It wasn't even a competition.

-Ally

That seems very prevalent. There's this weird dance around the hole they perform. Nobody seems to stand behind their putt ready to go rather than huddled around their playing partners each time. A little side shuffle and shimmy to the next tap in and so on...

Then return to their bags or even worse buggy at the front or on the wrong side of the green. We were a 4 following a 3 last weekend - 4 hours 40 for a round of golf and their buggy-rider who was playing classic military golf managed to drive across the apron to the wrong side of the green relative to the next tee every single blasted time :angry:

Oh - and also players who have never ever ever hit the ball so far who wait for the green to clear just in case a miracle happens and they get even close...

Aaaaaaaaggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

 

[JustOne]

I was behind a 4 ball yesterday and they were really slow because every putt they marked and read the line , even 1 footers. It wasn't even a competition.

-Ally

There's nothing wrong with that, if they were slow they should have let you through... no doubt if they were super slow there'd be a 2 or 3 hole gap in front of them?? (that being the case if they didn't let you through they would be in the wrong).

Just 'cos you want to whip round does NOT mean that others shouldn't play their round to the fullest.

 

[IanLeeds]

Most of the issue is too many warm up shots, people marking cards on green.. leaving clubs to far away and not closer to there way of exit to next hole!

 

[Hobbit]

Oh dear, what have I started?

In all seriousness I think there are a number of reasons for slow play.

1) Courses are more crowded than they've ever been, and what used to be 9 minute gaps have become 7 minute gaps. When a player isn't sure where he's hit his ball, or maybe hits a complete duff, there isn't the gap/time to look before the group behind are huffing and puffing.
2) Not enough provisionals are played.
3) People rarely wave the group behind through, hiding behind the excuse that, "they've got nowhere to go so why bother."
4) Players not ready to play, e.g. they haven't even chosen what club to hit whilst they've waited by their ball as their fellow player hits.
5) The school kid football match mentality, i.e. the full fourball tracks to each ball in turn carrying out a full boardroom discussion as they go.
6) Players insisting on putting out in stableford/bogey comps even tho they can't 'score.' And their playing partners not having the balls to tell them to pick up.

Its not a sprint, and it never was whatever some might think, but crikey its not following a hearse either.

 

[MashieNiblick]

I'm not usually one for a rant but...

:rant:

One thing that really annoyed me in the current GM (page 64) was the perennial "tip" telling people to look at their putts from all angles, illustrated with a picture of the guy looking at a 10 footer from all four sides. He then says building this into your pre-shot routine won't slow down play!!!! How does he reckon that? You can't do this while others are playing. It has to take longer than just a look from behind the ball which you can do when others are putting. Multiply it by 4 if everyone in the group is doing it and that is going to be a long wait for the folks behind waiting to play to the green.

Oh and this is a tip to "break 90". Break 90...not win the Open. Really? You need to do that to break 90? Well I can tell you, you don't.

And...breathe.

 

[JustOne]

1) Courses are more crowded than they've ever been, and what used to be 9 minute gaps have become 7 minute gaps.

Weird huh? Yesterday we were talking about how they were all closing.....

 

[Imurg]

Example. As a kid i caddied at the addington, a good course but with lots of hills the olds boys struggled. Our regular saturday 4 ball was made up of a

76 year old off 18, not long but accurate, (used a caddy)
early 60's off 11/12, not long but awesome short game and consistent. (my main man)
*these two always played together,*
Then there would always be 2 others off between 10-18, in their 60's and atleast 1 would have a caddy, the other if no caddy would use an electric trolley.

So the average age in the group is mid to late 60's, at least 3 caddies ball spotting, tending pins etc we could go off at 8:30 and would be back in by 12/12:15 max. average time of 3:30/3:45,

Take into account the probability that these old Boys had likely played the course 3000 times and knew without checking what club to hit because it would be the exact same club they hit last week because they were in the exact same spot.
Also Caddies help enormously. Not having to mess about with the pin leaves the player free to line up putts or clear the green quicker.

Coming onto Fundy's issue - have these people decided that 5 hour rounds are ok or have they just accepted that 5 hour rounds are going to happen and have got into the habit...?

I would hate to play APGC on a Saturday morning. Every slot is booked through to about 11.30 - knowing some of those who play it must take all day to get round.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I was behind a 4 ball yesterday and they were really slow because every putt they marked and read the line , even 1 footers. It wasn't even a competition.

-Ally

That seems very prevalent. There's this weird dance around the hole they perform. Nobody seems to stand behind their putt ready to go rather than huddled around their playing partners each time. A little side shuffle and shimmy to the next tap in and so on...

Then return to their bags or even worse buggy at the front or on the wrong side of the green. We were a 4 following a 3 last weekend - 4 hours 40 for a round of golf and their buggy-rider who was playing classic military golf managed to drive across the apron to the wrong side of the green relative to the next tee every single blasted time :angry:

Oh - and also players who have never ever ever hit the ball so far who wait for the green to clear just in case a miracle happens and they get even close...

Aaaaaaaaggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Sadly it is prevalent. There is a roll up that goes out literally at first light on a Saturday an part of their thing is to count every single shot and have a cup they play for, for the lowest number of shots in a calendar year. Great except the averag handicap is probably 20 (and I'm being kind). They hold the whole course up every weekend and yet the club feel powereless to stop. They are the typical car park golfers and change in the car as they are there before the clubhouse opens and never venture in for a drink. Good job as there is a growing list waiting to give them a few home truths. They simply don't see they are doing anything wrong and there is more chance of me sticking swing coach or not buying anymore golf gear in 2012 than ever being allowed to play through

 

[Junior]

For me its mostly people not being ready to play when its their turn. Tee to green the play should be quick, sure people tend to take a bit more time around the green as thats where more shots are taken!

 

[Val]

Im an early morning player so normally first or second draw so within the first 10 groups out. We have a tight par 3 5th hole playing around 190 yds, it backs onto our 16th tee, normally when I get to the 16th the 5th is backed up with 2 goups on the tee and 1 on the hole itself, its a nightmare for later groups. Par 3's tend to bottle neck especially if early in the round and after a relatively simple short par 4, my old course also had a similar problem on 2 holes, par 3 second and drivable Par 4 8th, always bottle necked.

 

[Oddsocks]

some valid points here.

Hobbits first, the ability to be shot ready as it were without doubt speeds up play, but the biggest factor is the "must put out" mentality. we have a small group of 12 that travel around, with hc ranging from 10-28(being nice but should be more like 38), we are constantly badgering everyone but more importantly the high hc players (because they tend to be slower) that if you cant score pick up.. or if you want a practice putt dont faff around lining it up from every angle possible. one of them made a valid point in saying that he only plays once a month, and who are we to tell him if he cant score pick up... he only plays once a month, paid the same to play as everyone else, so therefore doesnt he deserve the right to play each hole. at one point it caused a bit of atmosphere in the group, part of me agrees, he pays so he plays, but then i agree with the no score no shot thinking pattern. it got silly when they are putting out for double figures..... but there are people out there.

Mashie next, the read the put from every angle thing. now this i disagree with 100%, for me, from the back of the ball is good, if im in doubt maybe a front on look from behind the hole, and at most a quick glance while walking back to the ball. i find the more i think about my putts, the less success rate i have as im thinking to much, look at the line, get your line, hit the ball... its simple. its great when we see people look at 10/15 ft putts from every angle possible only to lag up 6ft short and then look shocked... why are you shocked, you havent got near a hole all bloody day, why should looking at it 5/6/7 different angles make any difference.

Imurg with the old boy sam clubs scinario. you could be onto something here, take an average par 4 of 400/450 yards, most would hit driver off the tee as their short but arrow straight with it, know that their second shot is either 3w or 5w, know that their next shot is a wedge ... 2 putts for a bogey at most. now playing the same holes, from the same tees, i could hit 3w 5/6i, driver 7/8i so maybe this is what takes a bit of extra time, but in general walking to my ball to play my approach ive already looked at pin placement and worked out if its uphil (+1 club), downhill (-1club) or assed any wind. get to the ball, look at gps as im putting the bag down, practice swipe, wallop...

I think the key factor is how can some people be so aware of the pace of play, and some be so oblivious to it.

 

[Hobbit]

I think the key factor is how can some people be so aware of the pace of play, and some be so oblivious to it.

That's an easy one. The slow player actually thinks he's not slow. He thinks the guy behind, badgering him, is too quick. Pace of play, quick slow or whatever is subjective. Until more clubs post expected playing times, e.g. a sign on the 6th tee saying "you should be 1hr 20mins to here," people aren't being educmakated.

 

[JustOne]

Until more clubs post expected playing times, e.g. a sign on the 6th tee saying "you should be 1hr 20mins to here," people aren't being educmakated. <<<< WTF?!

I agree 100%, just how hard can it be to make a sign or two?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I was behind a 4 ball yesterday and they were really slow because every putt they marked and read the line , even 1 footers. It wasn't even a competition.

-Ally

That seems very prevalent. There's this weird dance around the hole they perform. Nobody seems to stand behind their putt ready to go rather than huddled around their playing partners each time. A little side shuffle and shimmy to the next tap in and so on...

Then return to their bags or even worse buggy at the front or on the wrong side of the green. We were a 4 following a 3 last weekend - 4 hours 40 for a round of golf and their buggy-rider who was playing classic military golf managed to drive across the apron to the wrong side of the green relative to the next tee every single blasted time :angry:

Oh - and also players who have never ever ever hit the ball so far who wait for the green to clear just in case a miracle happens and they get even close...

Aaaaaaaaggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

I agree 100%, just how hard can it be to make a sign or two?

But a) how many members would bother with it keeping up with the projected time b) how many clubs would employ anyone to police it and c) would they honestly impose sanctions of transgressors and lose members who just want to enjoy their game