Raising the pension age

It doesn't surprise me that Iain Duncan Smith's (former???) think tank is responsible for this report. He made some terrible decisions as Work and Pensions secretary, showing little regard for the less privileged.

My Dad last week retired at 67. He stayed on a few years as he enjoyed what he was doing and was in relatively good health. He'd worked for very nearly 54 years. Many of his contemporaries were not in the same fettle and couldn't have stayed on, even if they'd wanted to. Nor should they have to.

It's not only the government at fault. Many employer pension schemes are tied into state pension age. So for people my age, that is currently 68. If I want to go sooner, I'll have to forego a significant sum of my pension to draw it 'early'.
 
Fromtherough said:
It doesn't surprise me that Iain Duncan Smith's (former???) think tank is responsible for this report. He made some terrible decisions as Work and Pensions secretary, showing little regard for the less privileged.

My Dad last week retired at 67. He stayed on a few years as he enjoyed what he was doing and was in relatively good health. He'd worked for very nearly 54 years. Many of his contemporaries were not in the same fettle and couldn't have stayed on, even if they'd wanted to. Nor should they have to.

It's not only the government at fault. Many employer pension schemes are tied into state pension age. So for people my age, that is currently 68. If I want to go sooner, I'll have to forego a significant sum of my pension to draw it 'early'.
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The article in the Middlesbrough Evening Gazette, which you may have seen... there's some shocking stats in it!!

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/...-ZZX30nfFE0FZNQGonHxmn54N2aYBiWZ4N_91sm-C8gX8
 
Hobbit said:
The article in the Middlesbrough Evening Gazette, which you may have seen... there's some shocking stats in it!!

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/...-ZZX30nfFE0FZNQGonHxmn54N2aYBiWZ4N_91sm-C8gX8
Click to expand...


I agree entirely that the pension age should not rise but how do you legislate for the fact people in the north east especially live much less healthy lives? No one is forcing them to be more likely to smoke, be obese, develop COPD, CAD, IHD etc.

There’s already an argument that the more affluent south effectively pays for the “poorer” north’s health care already.

It’s a minefield when you have to average across so many demographics and when it comes to state benefits and the like, the better off will always feel aggrieved. I personally think that in a civilised society the better off should help the lesser off but for many it’s a bitter pill and will affect the way parties campaign on things like pensions.
 
great new for Scoland then, LE is 77 for men and 81 women, so you would really enjoy that pittence.

Doesn't suprise me its come from someone like EDS no regards for those less well off,
 
The problem is on both sides, workers and employers. Awful for workers who don't want to keep going when they are physically and mentally not up to working any more, awful for employers who are stuck with employees who are no longer physically and mentally up to their job any more. If you have employed someone for many years then you really don't want to have to go through the horrible situation of proving to a loyal employee that they are no longer capable of doing their job to the level required. We all decline with age and part of the retirement age level is acknowledging this.
 
Kellfire said:
I agree entirely that the pension age should not rise but how do you legislate for the fact people in the north east especially live much less healthy lives? No one is forcing them to be more likely to smoke, be obese, develop COPD, CAD, IHD etc.

There’s already an argument that the more affluent south effectively pays for the “poorer” north’s health care already.

It’s a minefield when you have to average across so many demographics and when it comes to state benefits and the like, the better off will always feel aggrieved. I personally think that in a civilised society the better off should help the lesser off but for many it’s a bitter pill and will affect the way parties campaign on things like pensions.
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Are the people of the NE more likely to smoke or be obese? It could certainly be a factor if so. Other factors could also affect health of the populous: average salary, disposable income, types of employment available, environment (caused by local industry) etc etc.

In my line of work, compared to London based colleagues, I get paid considerably less for doing exactly the same job and have to work longer hours. London "weighting" is likely to have a detrimental effect on me by the time i'm pensionable age in comparison to my colleagues based out of London.
 
Hobbit said:
The article in the Middlesbrough Evening Gazette, which you may have seen... there's some shocking stats in it!!

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/...-ZZX30nfFE0FZNQGonHxmn54N2aYBiWZ4N_91sm-C8gX8
Click to expand...
Horrendous...… though I suppose many of the stats are drawn from the period when thick, red clouds hung over Teesside permanently & when nobody in their right mind would buy a second-hand from there.
I wonder how stats would compare to, say Sheffield & Ellesmere Port? Though neither have had quite the variety & intensity of such damaging industrial past… unless I'm badly mistaken.
I remember well, my best mates Dad from Fulham who died in his 90's saying how all his pals had gone decades before him as they'd lived through the worst of the London smogs whereas he'd been away from it in the Merchant Navy.
 
Is it time to change public sector workers pensions from the hideously expensive gold plated versions they are now on, to something more akin to private sector money purchase schemes?
If thisxwas done, it would provide the savings necessary to up the old age pension, and also continue providing it at 65.
Public sector pensions amounts are just not available to private sector employees.
A 1m pension pot will give around 40k a year, as far as I can work out. How many will end up with a 1m pot? Versus how many public sector workers will be on a pension of 40k?
 
murphthemog said:
Is it time to change public sector workers pensions from the hideously expensive gold plated versions they are now on, to something more akin to private sector money purchase schemes?
If thisxwas done, it would provide the savings necessary to up the old age pension, and also continue providing it at 65.
Public sector pensions amounts are just not available to private sector employees.
A 1m pension pot will give around 40k a year, as far as I can work out. How many will end up with a 1m pot? Versus how many public sector workers will be on a pension of 40k?
Click to expand...
Hahaha...… can't see that being many.
Probably more getting their 'Golden hand-shakes' from the Private sector.
 
People forget that the vast majority of the Public Sector don't earn very much and their pensions, although better than many, are proportionally not that wonderful either. Headline grabbing senior ministers are by no means what everyone enjoys. (I'm freelancing in Govt currently, and the pay scales don't enable them to recruit the skills they need in certain areas. )

What troubles me is that the people telling me to buy "low cost endowments" in the 1980s are the very same people selling me pension products now!!!! :oops:
 
Global health expectancy is just over 63 which is the same as the UK.
Nobody can be forced to work over 60.
State pension is about £150 a week if you have full contributions. There is also the safety net of pension credit.
Private pensions help but may or may not be the answer to lifting your income up to your salary when working.
But really, who cares about money if their health is letting them down.
 
2blue said:
Hahaha...… can't see that being many.
Probably more getting their 'Golden hand-shakes' from the Private sector.
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One is too many... ST has recently been reporting on a senior officer in the Met police who has a pension pot of £2m as against the average of £32k... Simply obscene in my view...

And, there are almost certainly far worse examples...
 
Fromtherough said:
Are the people of the NE more likely to smoke or be obese? It could certainly be a factor if so. Other factors could also affect health of the populous: average salary, disposable income, types of employment available, environment (caused by local industry) etc etc.
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Yes they are, and it's because of the things you go on to mention.
 
MegaSteve said:
One is too many... ST has recently been reporting on a senior officer in the Met police who has a pension pot of £2m as against the average of £32k... Simply obscene in my view...

And, there are almost certainly far worse examples...
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Compared too the ' captains ' of industry who pillage their shareholders and those unfortunate enough to be their customers, I think that the leader of the met is actually quite a deserving case.
The right wing press has a massive agenda against what's left of the public sector while turning the other cheek to the abuses of the righteous capitalists. Let's not fall for their nonsense without questioning it.
 
I guess the younger generation are the ones to worry about. Many start work, buy houses and have kids much later in life than my generation. most are paying for high priced housing, albeit at a hugely lower interest rate than I ever had but many have university debt to pay too so starting to put enough into a private pension is more difficult and will only, of course, impact later in life.
 
pendodave said:
Compared too the ' captains ' of industry who pillage their shareholders and those unfortunate enough to be their customers, I think that the leader of the met is actually quite a deserving case.
The right wing press has a massive agenda against what's left of the public sector while turning the other cheek to the abuses of the righteous capitalists. Let's not fall for their nonsense without questioning it.
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If it was the leader, of the Met, then there may not be an issue... However the story is related to an officer who (allegedly) has failed in a previous post and has somehow landed another senior position... Being rewarded for failure, for me, smells of funny handshake club intervention...

And, yes the "captains of industry" also extract the urine when it comes to pensions...
 
2blue said:
Horrendous...… though I suppose many of the stats are drawn from the period when thick, red clouds hung over Teesside permanently & when nobody in their right mind would buy a second-hand from there.
I wonder how stats would compare to, say Sheffield & Ellesmere Port? Though neither have had quite the variety & intensity of such damaging industrial past… unless I'm badly mistaken.
I remember well, my best mates Dad from Fulham who died in his 90's saying how all his pals had gone decades before him as they'd lived through the worst of the London smogs whereas he'd been away from it in the Merchant Navy.
Click to expand...

I well remember wearing my brand new Ryder Cup waterproofs at Cleveland GC when there was a strong wind blowing off the steel works. After several washes they just had to be binned, and everyone was breathing that crap.

murphthemog said:
Is it time to change public sector workers pensions from the hideously expensive gold plated versions they are now on, to something more akin to private sector money purchase schemes?
If thisxwas done, it would provide the savings necessary to up the old age pension, and also continue providing it at 65.
Public sector pensions amounts are just not available to private sector employees.
A 1m pension pot will give around 40k a year, as far as I can work out. How many will end up with a 1m pot? Versus how many public sector workers will be on a pension of 40k?
Click to expand...

Most public sector, final salary pensions were amended/ended quite a while ago. And once upon a time I had no trouble employing Medical Physics Engineers from the NHS. Recent years I had staff going the other way as, even with a fully expensed car etc, the salaries the NHS is paying was better.

stefanovic said:
Global health expectancy is just over 63 which is the same as the UK.
Nobody can be forced to work over 60.
State pension is about £150 a week if you have full contributions. There is also the safety net of pension credit.
Private pensions help but may or may not be the answer to lifting your income up to your salary when working.
But really, who cares about money if their health is letting them down.
Click to expand...

You need to look at what the average is for the 'established' modern nations, and not include the developing nation, whose average drags the global average down.
 
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