Putting green Rules conundrum...

JezzE

JezzE

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Just finished an article for the June issue based on my experiences at the annual R&A Referees' School in St Andrews.

Here's one that came up in discussion there for the assembled forum gurus to chew over: Is it fair that a ball that stops on the lip and then drops after you've reached the hole and stood there for 10 seconds counts as a shot while a ball blown in by strong winds from further afield does not?

I await your comments...
 
Yes all down to playing without undue delay for me.If it falls in while you walk from 150 yards due to a gust of wind then so be it,you are still playing without undue delay but if on the green and it sat on the lip and we had no time rule how long would someone stand about waiting for that gust to possibly blow it in?!
 
How would you know if the wind blew in a ball adjacent to the hole, or if it just fell in. Especially as you are not allowed wind measuring equipment in the rules.

I would say the current rules are fine, as once you have arrived at the ball, you are time wasting dawdling about waiting for it to drop. You need a time limit, or you would be there all day. 10 seconds is the ruling. Fine.
 
There are alot of more unfair rules in golf than that. Having to play from an open divot hole for example, or, not being allowed to tap down spike marks on the green. :mad:
 
We're not talking about the wind blowing it in on the lip but from anywhere. Wind is not an 'outside agency' so if your ball at rest is subsequently moved by the wind before you address it, you simply play from the new location. If it goes in the hole, then you are considered to have holed out with the previous shot.
Can work the other way of course, as Lee Westwood found out when his ball was blown off a green at Birkdale last year. But he did then get his own back by chipping in!
 
I think the rules are right on this as they are.

On a similar note, the penalty on Harrington? at the Masters when he took his stance, then moved away, then a few seconds later the ball moved and he got pinged seemed harsh.
 
Gil - the divot one comes up time and time again, but the problem is defining exactly what a divot is. One man's divot is another's shallow scrape or indentation, and you would almost certainly end up with people applying different criteria and therefore effectively playing to different Rules. Far better for fairness week-in, week-out to simply play it as it lies and let it all even itself out over the course of the season?
 
It does seem a little unfair. Though the 10 second rule is there for a reason. The reason as we all know is to prevent undue delay. I do feel sorry for people who have balls sitting up on the edge of the hole that really ought to drop. But we can't wait all day for a ball on the lip to drop. As for the one blowing in from further afield if its rub of the green for Lee Westwards to have blown off, it ought to be rub of the green for one to blow in from further afield without penalty. It is an odd one. Thanks for sharing :)

If wind were deemed an outside agancy Lee Westwood could have simply replaced his ball. Though this to me seems silly & an unlikely re-mit.

I see where you are coming from JezzE
 
I agree entirely with what you say Jezz regarding judging a divot from a scrape etc.
But when you've just launched a cracking drive, straight down the middle, and it's finished where someone appears to have tried digging a new bunker. Well................ :mad: :mad: :mad:
 
And I agree entirely with you too! However, it's one of those situations where the fairest thing overall is to have a clearcut rule that isn't open to woolly interpretation which might mean some are playing by more lenient rules than others.
On the plus side, and speaking from occasional personal experience, if you do get the ball back in the stance, execute well from a divot and save par, it can give you a real buzz for the rest of the round in a kind of 'wrong righted' sort of way.
 
The reason I think the rule in the OP is fair is that it's measurable.
You know that once you're at the hole you have those 10 seconds.
Therefore, as opposed to the divot issue with judgement, there is less chance for people to bend the rules too much.
 
As far as being in a divot goes. I'd always say play it as it lies. Though I know a workmate who will allow himself free relief every time. I give him enough stick about it in a social round. Hope he has the good sence to either play it as it lies if we ever get involved in the same club together in a proper clubcomp.

I supose he could call it unplayable. But he'd not get free relief
 
I do not think this rule needs changing but it's not really fairly measurable -

We are at St Andrews, I have a 100ft putt that stops on the lip, it may take me the best part of a minute to meander (Without delay) up to the hole then wait my 10seconds before reluctantly tapping in.

You have a 4ft putt that hangs on the lip, you now have approx 12 seconds or so to tap that in, giving my ball a whole minute more to make that last little journey??
 
Thing is Robobum it may not seem fair, but how are we going to change it...? Give 60 seconds from one putt to the next putt for any ball to count as holed out. Give as much time as needed? Or simply say that if after upto 10 seconds, then whilst addressing the ball happens to fall in it coundts as the previous shot?

I also consider it unfair that a ball falling in after 10 seconds would count as a stroke, but how are we going to word the rules. They are getting too convoluted as it is.

Simply saying play it as it lays & fair are the two biggest commandments as far as I'm concerned if it were to be brought back to basics.

Speaking of which.... I remember I found some links to do with early Golf rules before.

http://www.standrewsgolf.co.uk/rules_of_golf.php

http://www.leith-rules-golf.co.uk/theoriginalrules.htm

http://www.purgatorygolf.com/pages/Original_rules.htm
 
A minute to walk 100ft without delay?
Click to expand...

By the time you've fallen to your knees, thrown your putter to the ground, cursed the big fella upstairs for your bad luck, got back to feet, collected putter, dawdled towards hole whilst looking at everyone in the vicinity pleading with them for their collective sympathy all to no avail!!

A minutes about fair :D

After all that be careful not to whif it!! :eek:
 
I think the rule about spike marks on the green needs looking at especially in the pro game. With the advent of these new low level HD slow motion cameras that show the putt in all its glory its amazing how bumpy the greens get especially for afternoon starters or those in the last group. There have been many instances where a ball has jumped offline and even airborne after hitting a spike mark
 
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