Pro-mateurs and the costs

[drdel]

Reading this months GM I noticed 3 articles (iona Sephen, Wayne Riley and Bill Elliot) that mentioned the amateur progression to professional. In the context of the recent new reports that young people are relying heavily on the 'Bank of Mum and Dad' it got me thinking of the costs involved.

So many young people find themselves with a debt for University upwards of £30K and several of our British Professional golfers have come through the US College system.

With organisations in the UK like Golf England, and Wentworth (among others) giving bursaries will it mean that only the wealthy young golfer stand a chance. The Ian Poulter route seem less likely.

Are these 'amateurs' really professional in that it is money from a 3rd party source that supports their way of life?

I wonder, if a family wanted to support their child what would be the cost?

 

[Ross61]

I don't know the full cost but as an idea, on a low level tour like the Jamega tour the entry fees are £220 for each 2 day tournament. On this there are travel costs and possibly lodging costs too. I looked up a typical event from last year. 68 entrants the winner got £1750 2nd £1250 ... 6th £600 and those tied for 7th £202, the rest got zilch.
So really in fees alone you have to be regularly getting in the top 5 just to make a meagre profit.

 

[Simbo]

Nearly every pro on the tour with the exception of a few will have stories about sharing campervans in the middle of nowhere and surviving on pot noodles while trying to make it.
I personally know 3 VERY good amateurs that turned pro and while one made a decent living for a few years he's now back playing amateur, again to a high level. Another I know gave up and now drives taxis. Both had +4/5 handicaps when they turned pro. The other I know is in his second year, playing pro part time and delivering pizzas for dominos to make ends meet, another very good amateur. The main problem is the money these guys that just turn pro are playing for is quite poor, one of the lads managed to win a tournament on his first pro outing, beat another 120 guys or whatever and came home with a cheque for just under 5k, less tax, less expenses etc.
Tough way to earn a living.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Ultimately for an aspiring pro to become a successful pro golfer the first step is to qualify for the Euro Pro Tour - once they qualfy doors open , they have the chance to earn a living and to get them to the next step up into the Challenge Tour - then they can start to catch the eye of small manufacturer sponsorship which then gives them footing to compete for a tour card. A good number of ET golfers have followed that path and done well - Jordan Smith and Tyrell Hatton too obvious ones. The biggest thing they all need to really stand them in good place is winning early - that's what Poulter did ,he won very early and then just went on from there.

They could also go straight to Q school and try and claim a tour card from there - believe Beef grabbed a challenge tour one and then never looked back.

If an amatuer is good enough then he will make it -money won't stop them but they have to show they are good enough.

 

[ScienceBoy]

If there wasn't something in it then there wouldn't be the competition to make a living of it.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

So many players chasing so little money at anything under the European Tour and it takes a special player with talent, and not the odd helping hand from family/sponsors. However class will out and if your good enough then you'll get your chance. To be honest (and slightly contentious) many of these players on the lower tours think they are better than they actually are

 

[fundy]

Ultimately for an aspiring pro to become a successful pro golfer the first step is to qualify for the Euro Pro Tour - once they qualfy doors open , they have the chance to earn a living and to get them to the next step up into the Challenge Tour - then they can start to catch the eye of small manufacturer sponsorship which then gives them footing to compete for a tour card. A good number of ET golfers have followed that path and done well - Jordan Smith and Tyrell Hatton too obvious ones. The biggest thing they all need to really stand them in good place is winning early - that's what Poulter did ,he won very early and then just went on from there.

They could also go straight to Q school and try and claim a tour card from there - believe Beef grabbed a challenge tour one and then never looked back.

If an amatuer is good enough then he will make it -money won't stop them but they have to show they are good enough.

pretty sure no ones ever earnt a living on the europro tour, its just a stepping stone. The guys who win it win £30k or so, theres very little of that left after expenses for 15 or so tournaments plus tour school etc. Challenge tour is better but not that much better as whilst prize money increases so do expenses with tournaments in a far wider geography. Again long term it is only a stepping stone. Ultimately the money is hugely concentrated at the very top, and only the very best (and occasionally the fortunate) make it

 

[drdel]

Okay I get that many Pros don't make a good living.


But aren't the 'lucky' amateurs really 'employees' of their supporters/backers?

And, what do we think (given a following wind, and enough talent) what the cost of getting to be a Pro might be: e.g. how much to study in the US etc.? - £50k, £100K ??

 

[DCB]

Even the route for the elite amateur is an expensive route. Travel, hotel or b&b costs all add up as they spend the season playing in the bigger amateur events. Mum and Dad need deep pockets nowadays 😉

 

[Simbo]

Okay I get that many Pros don't make a good living.


But aren't the 'lucky' amateurs really 'employees' of their supporters/backers?

And, what do we think (given a following wind, and enough talent) what the cost of getting to be a Pro might be: e.g. how much to study in the US etc.? - £50k, £100K ??

Obviously the amount of tournaments you play and where they are make a difference, a lot of them trying to make it tend to try and play maybe 3 tournaments in 3 weeks all fairly close to each other to keep flight costs down. This means more hotels though.
It costs about £1500 to enter a school and there's 1000 guys going for a dozen cards, some have already been on tour for years, ex Ryder cup players etc.On the challenge tour the guys are playing for peanuts, maybe 3/4K to the winner, 75% of the field won't get anything.
To play on the challenge tour for a full season I'd guess that you would need at least 35/40k

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Obviously the amount of tournaments you play and where they are make a difference, a lot of them trying to make it tend to try and play maybe 3 tournaments in 3 weeks all fairly close to each other to keep flight costs down. This means more hotels though.
It costs about £1500 to enter a school and there's 1000 guys going for a dozen cards, some have already been on tour for years, ex Ryder cup players etc.On the challenge tour the guys are playing for peanuts, maybe 3/4K to the winner, 75% of the field won't get anything.
To play on the challenge tour for a full season I'd guess that you would need at least 35/40k

The Euro Pro Tour winners get 10k per win

Challenge tour events have prize money up to £500 with the winners picking up prize money over 50k up to £150k

So whilst it's not multi millions it's not peanuts as such - if the player is doing well to earn decent money on the challenge tour then they
are more than likely going to be in the Top 10 on the tour to gain ET tour cards - also a good number on that tour will have club sponsors and maybe other sponsors that will help with the expenses

 

[MendieGK]

The Euro Pro Tour winners get 10k per win

Challenge tour events have prize money up to £500 with the winners picking up prize money over 50k up to £150k

So whilst it's not multi millions it's not peanuts as such - if the player is doing well to earn decent money on the challenge tour then they
are more than likely going to be in the Top 10 on the tour to gain ET tour cards - also a good number on that tour will have club sponsors and maybe other sponsors that will help with the expenses

Jordan won £25k the year He won the OOM on Europro. His outgoing would have easily been £10k, so even the winner basically made less than minimum wage.

as you said it's a stepping stone, you can't make a career on any tour other hen European tour.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Jordan won £25k the year He won the OOM on Europro. His outgoing would have easily been £10k, so even the winner basically made less than minimum wage.

as you said it's a stepping stone, you can't make a career on any tour other hen European tour.

Fair point and unless you're extremely talented and can go from an amateur career, into Q school and out on tour (very unlikely) these tours are essential learning curves but aren't profitable. I think most see them as a means to an end but the bitter truth is for many, it shows a lot of these pros that they simply don't have what it takes to make it on tour. Some obviously are capable of making a living on the Europro tour but I wouldn't think after expenses it's ever going to be fortunes

 

[MendieGK]

Fair point and unless you're extremely talented and can go from an amateur career, into Q school and out on tour (very unlikely) these tours are essential learning curves but aren't profitable. I think most see them as a means to an end but the bitter truth is for many, it shows a lot of these pros that they simply don't have what it takes to make it on tour. Some obviously are capable of making a living on the Europro tour but I wouldn't think after expenses it's ever going to be fortunes

thing is, if you make enough to have a 'living' on Europro, you'd end top 5 in OOM which would get you a challenge tour card.

my mate Darren finished 2nd in the OOM the year Jordan won it, at the end of the challenge tour season last year he had won £4K. He's just quit golf to train as an electrician.

 

[chrisd]

One of our members got the 15th, and last, automatic Challenge Tour automatic ET spot about 3 years ago, finished about 170th on Tour and lost his card at the end of his first year. It must have cost quite a bit but he'll always be able to say he'd played at the highest level as well as in our Friday swindle!

 

[Scozzy]

A pal of mine is a club pro of many years,he and a few partners are sponsoring a few young lads with promise to the tune of 1500£ a week to cover costs on the minor tours for 3 yrs to see if they all can't win in the end....One of the partners is minted so he's not bothered about the outlay but these youngsters are all at least + 3 hcaps and all struggling to make anything at all...for anyone! I believe back in the day Paul Laurie went pro off a handicap of 4 or 5! Those days are well gone!! +5,the X factor,work ethic and a few quid from Dad.....the rest are chasing the dream,good luck to them......

 

[Simbo]

http://www.todaysgolfer.co.uk/news-...e-being-a-tour-pro-whos-not-making-millions-/

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Great link Simbo.

 

[Simbo]

Found another old one from the aforementioned guy I know
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/golf/pro-scots-golfer-now-driving-taxi-to-support-family-1-3732152