Play for bogey, make par?

[justhitthething]

Here we have it in a nutshell. Its not about playing to bogey, its about playing to your handicap. Effectively we should be targetting nett pars on each hole. This could be a 4 5 or 6 on a par 4 depending on your handicap and the stroke index.
I have no doubt that this is the best way to reduce your handicap. It is also without question the best way to win handicap Matchplay matches.

Disagree with this totally.

On every tee box, regardless of the par, Stroke index or hole length, ask yourself one question......

How do <u>I</u> get the ball in the hole in the fewest shots possible allowing for the strengths and weaknesses in my own game?

It's not a question for high handicap or poor drivers etc, it's just course management and a question that all players should be asking.

I totally agree with your total disagreement. The point I was trying to make was in relation to the OP, which asked the question do I aim for bogey. My attempted answer was 'it depends on your ability, Your responce is a much more succinct, and accurate way of saying a similar thing.
I have to say though, not many golfers I know are capable of asking that 1 question on the tee box, and even fewer are capable of answering it honestly.

 

[justhitthething]

agreed

 

[Robobum]

I have to say though, not many golfers I know are capable of asking that 1 question on the tee box, and even fewer are capable of answering it honestly.

100% agree with this very agreeable statement

Although, we all are capable of asking the question unfortunately the answer is invariably "smash it with the driver!!" (Followed by "Titleist 4 provisional")

 

[freddielong]

I think also playing to remove the big numbers to some extent takes away some of the pressure it also gives you a definate game plan for the hole, which is a positive action

 

[Robobum]

This is, as per one reply, all handicap dependent on what is a respectable score on each hole. The trouble I see with the ultra cautious approach is that you are actually bringing double (or worse) into the equation without hitting a bad shot. I think this is an issue with the OP considering they play off 11 and as such are resonably competent.

We can all rack up big scores if we are spraying it everywhere. But if you turn a par 4 into a par 5 stood on the tee, hit 3 good irons onto the green then 3 whack on the surface, it's a double straight away without doing too much wrong.

 

[RGDave]

Wharton Park, Bewdley but I took to the driver to get to 13!

Nice. I remember Wharton Park well, and the tired legs that go with it.

I just tried to visit the website....it's broken

 

[RGDave]

This is, as per one reply, all handicap dependent on what is a respectable score on each hole. The trouble I see with the ultra cautious approach is that you are actually bringing double (or worse) into the equation without hitting a bad shot. I think this is an issue with the OP considering they play off 11 and as such are resonably competent.

We can all rack up big scores if we are spraying it everywhere. But if you turn a par 4 into a par 5 stood on the tee, hit 3 good irons onto the green then 3 whack on the surface, it's a double straight away without doing too much wrong.

Absolutely......this is the dodgy bit. Like I pointed out, I ended up with one double bogey and also had to get up n down on one of the holes just for bogey.

"I think this is an issue with the OP considering they play off 11 and as such are resonably competent".....yes....it IS an issue. If someone off 11 tries the policy on all the par 4s, they'd get nowhere.....if you "plan" on bogey, it needs to be ONLY when the player is in real danger.

The plan was to "test" the idea on a day when it was clear even 30 points would be solid playing given the rain and 40 mph winds.

Do I think it was worth it? Yes, definitely. On the 16th and 17th (par 4 and par 3) I played for two bogeys NOT by playing as usual and accepting a bogey, but actually playing a par 4 as a 5 and a par 3 as a par 4. To get through those two holes only 1 over par was massively pleasing.

If I find myself "on target" for 36 points or nett level par, I shall do the same again.

ALSO if you can't pitch from 60-110 yards with 9/10 confidence, it'd be a waste of time.

 

[RGDave]

How do <u>I</u> get the ball in the hole in the fewest shots possible allowing for the strengths and weaknesses in my own game?

It's not a question for high handicap or poor drivers etc, it's just course management and a question that all players should be asking.

Excellent here too Robo.

If YOU were stood on our 459 par 4, you'd probably see no issue, hit the drive and move on. Whereas slightly wayward hitters are thinking "10 yards right or left (of centre) and I'm chipping sideways and making 5 at best, almost certainly 6."

One of the guys I play with (off 21) gets 2 shots on this hole and always hits his driver. If he hit 2 5 irons, he only have 80-100 yards left. If he missed the green and chips on and 2 putts, that's 2 points!!! He N/Rs most weeks.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

At the end of the day the consensus seems to be play for the best score possible whilst using a pragmatic approach. I guess if you are into your round and come to the 15th or wherever you'll have a fairly good idea how the driver is behaving and how confident you are. If its going all over the shop or you are swinging badly, the sensibly option is to ignore the yardage and use something that gets you into play.

Its better to play short off the tee and keep it in play but take the greenout of range in two than risk a lost ball, unplayable or chip out sideways. If the green is out of range leaving a favourite yardage then brings the chances of a one putt and a par into the equation and still keeps the bogey as the likely outcome.

At the end of the day, everyone has to play each hole as they see it. There is no right or wrong way to approach the game.

 

[LPW]

Personally, I just go at every hole in it's own way. I can birdie the par 4 5th at my home course but not the par 4 14th. It's not a problem with my game but just bad memories.(lots of doubles )

 

[RGDave]

Personally, I just go at every hole in it's own way. I can birdie the par 4 5th at my home course but not the par 4 14th. It's not a problem with my game but just bad memories.(lots of doubles )

Yes...this is SO true. I have lots of negative thoughts on certain holes and very positive ones on others.

 

[Bigfoot]

Wharton Park, Bewdley but I took to the driver to get to 13!

Nice. I remember Wharton Park well, and the tired legs that go with it.

I just tried to visit the website....it's broken

I meant that I took the driver to get down to 13 handicap. Now I use the driver regularly but not on the short par 4 second.
Website seems OK now. I don't know how long ago you played Wharton Park but the greens are now much better than 2 or 3 years ago. Jamega Tour event this year produced rave reviews from the pros.
http://www.whartonpark.co.uk/

 

[Canfordhacker]

Some excellent posts on this thread.

I think it's a sound strategy for getting to 18, where 20+ handicappers often take too much on and make big numbers. As you get lower I think the relevant question that you have more chance of being able to execute to is the one Robobum poses (How do I get the ball in the hole in the fewest shots possible allowing for the strengths and weaknesses in my own game?).

In terms of par3/4/5, I know I average 0.6 over for the threes and fives (ie 10 ish handicapper), but 1.02 for the par 4's, more like an 18. Fact is i know I try too hard to hit some of the longer par 4's in two, that brings double or triple into play. So for me I know that I should play at least 4 par 4's as 5s, and my consistency (and hence handicap) will drop.

I just need to convince myself consistently to execute to this strategy now!!!

 

[RGDave]

In terms of par3/4/5, I know I average 0.6 over for the threes and fives (ie 10 ish handicapper), but 1.02 for the par 4's, more like an 18. Fact is i know I try too hard to hit some of the longer par 4's in two, that brings double or triple into play. So for me I know that I should play at least 4 par 4's as 5s, and my consistency (and hence handicap) will drop.

Good post. I don't know my averages but I do know I par and birdie the par 5s and short par 3/par 4s the most.
I also know that over a season, my weakest holes (6/10/16/17) are holes I'd take a bogey on standing on the tee (you know what I mean).

6 and 10 will always be tough, there's no getting away from it. But 16 and 17 are "gifts".....seriously, EASY played as a par 5 and par 4.

I can't wait to get out on those white tees again to test the strategy.

16 is only 330.....BUT only a player who can hit a 20 yard hook (big draw) can hit this fairway at driving distance. By playing anything around a 4 or 5 iron the trees on the right are out of range. If I hit a bad one, what's the worst?...still got approx 165-175 to go. From there, I'd normally hit a 5 iron but there is a lake on the left of the green and nasty pot-bunker right.....so, take a club that reaches neither (I took a 6 from 165), land it 10 yards short of the green (you could miss by 20 yards left or right!) and then pitch to a flag 15 paces on.....somewhere around 25 yards.

Simples, really. I don't know why I've been making such crazy numbers for so long. I made a 4 (par) last time

- - - - -

Maybe I should set up a thread where folk can "admit" to a problem hole, play it in a totally new way and report back on how things went.

 

[Screwback]

As HJS pointed out in an earlier post having the confidence to hit a 3 wood off the tee and get more run and more accuracy is also IMO a benefit to all players regardless off handicap and length, and at the end off the day it is better to be on the fairway than it is to be off it!

 

[kid2]

How do <u>I</u> get the ball in the hole in the fewest shots possible allowing for the strengths and weaknesses in my own game?

It's not a question for high handicap or poor drivers etc, it's just course management and a question that all players should be asking.

Excellent here too Robo.

If YOU were stood on our 459 par 4, you'd probably see no issue, hit the drive and move on. Whereas slightly wayward hitters are thinking "10 yards right or left (of centre) and I'm chipping sideways and making 5 at best, almost certainly 6."

One of the guys I play with (off 21) gets 2 shots on this hole and always hits his driver. If he hit 2 5 irons, he only have 80-100 yards left. If he missed the green and chips on and 2 putts, that's 2 points!!! He N/Rs most weeks.

This lad that you play with dave why does he always not record.....
I play off 20 and if i was faced with the same hole as him and having an extra shot he should hit his 5 or 3 wood off the tee if there is so much trouble each side of the fairway.....
His course management must be poor if he's attacking a 459yrd par 4 with a driver off the tee with so much trouble around.
Doesnt make sense...
If he bogied this hole off his handicap he'd walk away with 3 points with no pressure on him...

 

[RGDave]

This lad that you play with dave why does he always not record.....
I play off 20 and if i was faced with the same hole as him and having an extra shot he should hit his 5 or 3 wood off the tee if there is so much trouble each side of the fairway.....
His course management must be poor if he's attacking a 459yrd par 4 with a driver off the tee with so much trouble around.
Doesnt make sense...
If he bogied this hole off his handicap he'd walk away with 3 points with no pressure on him...

He has a theory about this hole (S.I. 2) which I don't personally subscribe to. In places our course has 2 or 3 holes that run parallel (nothing new here) and if you are really wayward off the tee (i.e. not like me) you can quite often be on the next fairway. OK, you'll have to hit over some fairly tall trees, but nothing massive (ours course is only 20 years old.) On at least 3 or 4 holes, he drives onto the wrong fairway and has quite an easy shot (whilst those of us a small margin off target are in trouble). He pars the 2nd quite a lot (driver off the tee) from the 9th fairway, whilst the rest of us play a rescue/5 wood off the tee.

He got drawn with me in a pairs game....I banned him from using his driver (other than on 4 holes) and made him hit his 4 iron (210) off the tee. He made more pars that day than I've ever seen him make.

It's madness......but I can only be SO critical without sounding boring......

 

[kid2]

This lad that you play with dave why does he always not record.....
I play off 20 and if i was faced with the same hole as him and having an extra shot he should hit his 5 or 3 wood off the tee if there is so much trouble each side of the fairway.....
His course management must be poor if he's attacking a 459yrd par 4 with a driver off the tee with so much trouble around.
Doesnt make sense...
If he bogied this hole off his handicap he'd walk away with 3 points with no pressure on him...

He has a theory about this hole (S.I. 2) which I don't personally subscribe to. In places our course has 2 or 3 holes that run parallel (nothing new here) and if you are really wayward off the tee (i.e. not like me) you can quite often be on the next fairway. OK, you'll have to hit over some fairly tall trees, but nothing massive (ours course is only 20 years old.) On at least 3 or 4 holes, he drives onto the wrong fairway and has quite an easy shot (whilst those of us a small margin off target are in trouble). He pars the 2nd quite a lot (driver off the tee) from the 9th fairway, whilst the rest of us play a rescue/5 wood off the tee.

He got drawn with me in a pairs game....I banned him from using his driver (other than on 4 holes) and made him hit his 4 iron (210) off the tee. He made more pars that day than I've ever seen him make.

It's madness......but I can only be SO critical without sounding boring......

I think its high time you accidently walked on the shaft of his driver dave.......

This is one thing that really annoys me......Im a high handicapper ( quite competant) but with still alot to learn.....One thing iv learned really well since i started playing is to listen to lower handicappers whether it be here on the forum, playing partners or anybody else for that matter.........
Your rarely steer'd wrong by these people and if more high handicappers listened and maybe took 30% of the information there being told then iv no doubt that the figures would start to drop.... I think that the lad you talk about should maybe swallow his pride and play the percentages for a few months and see what happens....

 

[HomerJSimpson]

There is a time for playing the percentages (competition rounds) and times when you'll get more from your round by just going for it. I've often played with my regular Saturday fourball and started off poorly (ok crap) and suddenly thought sod it and ripped driver off every tee and gone for every green on long par 4's and the par 5's and suddenly started hitting it well.

I'm not saying play conservatively at all cost in a medal but be pragmatic with your shots and the way you are striking and try to grind the best score possible. Other than that we play the game for fun so if you want to let rip - go for it.