londonlewis
Tour Rookie
I don't see how 'plenty of dead kids that don't make the news' has any relevance to what you have just written.
Oh No!! Not the 'I' Word again.
- Thread starter SocketRocket
- Start date
I don't see how 'plenty of dead kids that don't make the news' has any relevance to what you have just written.
The Green Fairy
Assistant Pro
So many assumptions.
All refugees are good people
All supporters of ISIL are bad people
All terrorists are bad people
All air attacks by the west only kill the bad people, and never children
All the Muslims fleeing ISIL need our help.
All the Christians fleeing ISIL don't need our help.
All refugees are good people
All supporters of ISIL are bad people
All terrorists are bad people
All air attacks by the west only kill the bad people, and never children
All the Muslims fleeing ISIL need our help.
All the Christians fleeing ISIL don't need our help.
londonlewis
Tour Rookie
It's pretty ironic that you've just produced a list of, I'm assuming, our assumptions based on your own assumptions.
Again, I don't see how any of this is relevant to your comment that plenty of other children are being killed but not making the news. What did you mean when you said it?
So many assumptions.
All refugees are good people - no
All supporters of ISIL are bad people - yes
All terrorists are bad people - no
All air attacks by the west only kill the bad people, and never children - no
All the Muslims fleeing ISIL need our help. - no
All the Christians fleeing ISIL don't need our help. - no
Not bad, you got one right. Don't forget to do your homework before you go out to play with the big boys.
All refugees are good people - no
All supporters of ISIL are bad people - yes
All terrorists are bad people - no
All air attacks by the west only kill the bad people, and never children - no
All the Muslims fleeing ISIL need our help. - no
All the Christians fleeing ISIL don't need our help. - no
Not bad, you got one right. Don't forget to do your homework before you go out to play with the big boys.
If you want a real bad war, just involve religion in it. I always thought that Islam was a rather kind, harmless religion until Islamic State came on the scene. I am sure there is nothing in the Koran about beheading journalists and aid workers who are only there to help!
The Green Fairy
Assistant Pro
How the hell did you conclude that they were my assumptions, they most certainly are not mine. I correlated that list from the responses received to my question, over the last few posts.
The children I refer to are all those caught up in the war, those killed by our airstrikes, the decapitated Christian children in Iraq hardly got reported.
My point was that one child that drowned in Turkey, whilst his father was trying to get to Europe swayed opinion, massively.
The children I refer to are all those caught up in the war, those killed by our airstrikes, the decapitated Christian children in Iraq hardly got reported.
My point was that one child that drowned in Turkey, whilst his father was trying to get to Europe swayed opinion, massively.
The Green Fairy
Assistant Pro
I was not trying to get any right. I was pointing out that those things, including ISIL are all assumptive.
. . . and if ISIL and its millions of supporters are all bad people - what do you suggest we do with them?
londonlewis
Tour Rookie
I didn't conclude that these were your assumptions. I stated that you are assuming these are our views. No one has written any of these points down before so you have obviously assumed that's what we believe.
I still don't really understand your point. What point are you trying to make?
That the press should have posted pictures of children that were killed by drones? Why? So we basically stop our involvement in this and any future wars because of the potential to harm innocent victims?
Ok, so we get rid of all our weapons.
Or that the life (or death) of one child should not have had so much coverage and that somehow his life was worth less than others because his father put his life in danger when you believe he shouldn't have?
Ok, why is one person's life worth more than others?
I don't really understand why this is a problem for you.
The Green Fairy
Assistant Pro
My problem lies more with the fact that we accept, in refugees, an unknown quantity. It is obvious that ISIL supporters are considered to be evil and guilty of war crimes but so are Assad's supporters.
When we take refugees from this part of the world, where a culture of violence and war has been endemic for years, how are we to be sure that these people will remain peaceful when ensconced in our countries?
When we take refugees from this part of the world, where a culture of violence and war has been endemic for years, how are we to be sure that these people will remain peaceful when ensconced in our countries?
londonlewis
Tour Rookie
I still have absolutely no idea why you brought up that kid on the beach or those other children.
you've moved on to all sorts of other topics which again suggests you don't know why you said it or you can't justify why you said it.
The Green Fairy
Assistant Pro
My original post, was the irony of France crowing about their compassion and then carrying out air strikes.
Typically, however, this was met with a smart comment. The children thing was to do with how many would potentially be killed in the airstrikes.
The media has created a big compassion issue of the young boy and everyone has suddenly become very willing to accept these refugees.
I'm not one of them.
Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
Five years ago me and my beloved went to Kenya for our 25th anniversary. The Hotel was called Voyager. In essence the hotel "docked" in a differant country every night.
after a week or so a waitress heard we were on our 25th and the following night we were invited to dine at the captains table. captain that night was the head chef. "Captain Freddie" Missis T has just told me. Really really nice chap.
there were 5 couples sat around the table. A couple married 35 years, he was ex army met his wife when she was 16 in Belfast. She made me laugh telling us about running down the street being shot at by up the IRA. She hoped the bullets would not hit the fish tank she was carrying. They had to move her out of her house coz she fell in love with a soldier. He was very quiet and " Sussed folk out". He was nice. Another couple was married 30 yr. another 27. Us At 25 and another couple married 2 years. He was nice but she rubbed me up massive.
everyone was talking nicely and she dropped out that she was involved in integrating "Asylum seekers " into Britain. She lives and works in Leicester.
I said at this point ( five years ago) that we should have no more Asylum seekers, immigrants, etc etc. at this point I received my first kicking under the table off my wife.
Long story short this social worker told me she was helping Somalians to settle into a block of flats which they had to themselves. I said " so your helping to create social segregation and not social integration" I then got a second kick. I asked "how do we know who these people are. How do we not know that they say they are who they are". Third kick.
she then said quote " actually these people initially murdered and terrorised other clans in Somalia. other clans were made to flee there country. When the boot was on the other foot and initial murders were made to flee Somalia they ended up being housed in a block of flats in Leicester next to relatives of people they had murdered in Somalia". It was the relatives who told the social services who these people were that had just been housed.
So in essence. No I don't think we really do know who we are housing. But am sure that Daves plans to house people who have been screened in UN camps should go a long way to over come this problem.
on the Plane coming home miss short ass social worker was giving an air stewardess some real serious grief over nothing. He looked embarrassed. Missis T was chuntering under her breath about this woman. I told her my legs were black and blue coz you were defending her.
after a week or so a waitress heard we were on our 25th and the following night we were invited to dine at the captains table. captain that night was the head chef. "Captain Freddie" Missis T has just told me. Really really nice chap.
there were 5 couples sat around the table. A couple married 35 years, he was ex army met his wife when she was 16 in Belfast. She made me laugh telling us about running down the street being shot at by up the IRA. She hoped the bullets would not hit the fish tank she was carrying. They had to move her out of her house coz she fell in love with a soldier. He was very quiet and " Sussed folk out". He was nice. Another couple was married 30 yr. another 27. Us At 25 and another couple married 2 years. He was nice but she rubbed me up massive.
everyone was talking nicely and she dropped out that she was involved in integrating "Asylum seekers " into Britain. She lives and works in Leicester.
I said at this point ( five years ago) that we should have no more Asylum seekers, immigrants, etc etc. at this point I received my first kicking under the table off my wife.
Long story short this social worker told me she was helping Somalians to settle into a block of flats which they had to themselves. I said " so your helping to create social segregation and not social integration" I then got a second kick. I asked "how do we know who these people are. How do we not know that they say they are who they are". Third kick.
she then said quote " actually these people initially murdered and terrorised other clans in Somalia. other clans were made to flee there country. When the boot was on the other foot and initial murders were made to flee Somalia they ended up being housed in a block of flats in Leicester next to relatives of people they had murdered in Somalia". It was the relatives who told the social services who these people were that had just been housed.
So in essence. No I don't think we really do know who we are housing. But am sure that Daves plans to house people who have been screened in UN camps should go a long way to over come this problem.
on the Plane coming home miss short ass social worker was giving an air stewardess some real serious grief over nothing. He looked embarrassed. Missis T was chuntering under her breath about this woman. I told her my legs were black and blue coz you were defending her.
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Foxholer
Blackballed
londonlewis
Tour Rookie
So so basically you have a problem with two things.
1) taking asylum seekers in the first place
2) our vetting process for determining which asylum seekers to take and for determining who they are
if the UK improved the vetting process, would you be happy or do you still believe they shouldn't come here in the first place?
if you believe the latter, what should be done with them instead? Should other countries take the full burden and we stay out of it? That doesn't seem fair.
How about we send them all somewhere else? Would that solve the problem? If history has told us anything this is not a solution and never will be, this is what we did with the Jewish population that lives in Gaza. We basically decided to give them land to rehouse them as they were being persecuted. We armed them, trained them and helped develop their country. We can't do that again.
So so we either decide to take asylum seekers in or we let them die.
From the the many arguments made by those opposing the basic human rights of asylum seekers I can only really make some obvious connections;
- as we can not correctly tell the difference between those that are 'innocent' or 'bad' asylum seekers, we shouldn't let any of them in to begin with
- the asylum seekers that die trying to get to EU countries have brought it upon themselves, including children
- because there are many other victims of war (innocent men, women and children) some of whom are killed by attacks made by European nations, we should not feel compassion for any of the dead that are trying to seek asylum
As for your story, I'm not surprised your wife kicked you.
Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
Lewy you need to take a deep breath and read what people have written and not what you think they have written.
1, I have previously stated in this topic that I do not have a problem with people coming into this country and staying. So no I DO NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH TAKING ASYLUM SEEKERS IN THE FIRST PLACE. I would like to know who is going to live next door to me or my family. Nothing radical or controversial in that.
2, I have a problem with our previous vetting process, basically I don't think murders/ terrorists enhance my lifestyle. If that upsets you or anyone else well am not gonna apologise. But guess what Lewy not all asylum seekers are murders.
at the time I made my comments that "we should not allow anymore asylum seekers" the events that were happening in Syria were along way off.
the point of the story was that I have been told off Professionals ? Who deal with immigration that they did not know who is coming into this country. As was asked earlier in this topic " do we know who is coming into this country".
as regards the kicking bit. It's a bit sad really you should stoop so low to think that someone deserves a kicking.
londonlewis
Tour Rookie
Please dont call me Lewy.
It's murderer, not murder.
You quoted a single anecdote and I'm sure its accuracy has been lost somewhat, based on my intuition.
Forgive me to stooping 'so low', is that lower than, the same level or just above your wife who actually kicked you three times?
So others must be accurate or they're accused of having no substance but you're basing your assumptions on intuition... riiigghhht... and I'm assuming you're not calling someone's wife low? If you are, you need a good look at how you're coming across. A heated debate is one thing but criticising someone's wife is several steps too far.
londonlewis
Tour Rookie
I can't exactly base that assumption on fact can I hobbit, I wasn't present at the dinner table. So in that instance I must use my intuition.
So I am considered to have stooped to a low level for saying 'I'm not surprised your wife kicked you' but then I get in hot water for suggesting that his wife must be at least on the same level as she is the one that actually kicked him?
Well, that's a nice case of double standards.
Maybe you need to reread your post. Seems pretty clear to me... but hey, you're Mr. perfect...
londonlewis
Tour Rookie
I did re-read it. Maybe you are reading something that isn't there.
Why the need for name calling?
